7 replies to this topic

[Mercia2]

THE EXODUS - BORN AGAIN ALLEGORY

Hebrew Exodus - chariot wheels & more found in the Red Sea (Gulf of Aqaba), could possibly be evidence supporting this was not just an allegory but really happened - http://bibleprobe.com/exodus.htm

However, real events and real things are also used to symbolise what they spiritually represent in the Bible and many Biblical stories ALSO represent the role of Jesus and being born again. Like Cain and Abel.

Isaiah 1:11-15 … "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? …I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats… Bring no more vain oblations… your hands are full of blood."

Did the Jews misunderstand the spiritual meaning of the animal sacrifice?
What does God call a beast in the Bible? Is it not men and kingdoms? (see, Psalm 49:20; Eccl 3:18; Dan 7:23).

What God meant by the animal sacrifice is that we sacrifice the beast/animal nature within us. We are supposed to (internalise) the Word of God like one who eats it and digests its meaning (Rev 10:9; Ps 19:10). This is also why Cains sacrfice was refused (his offering was the result of the works of his own hands) while Abel sacrificed the beast (he made a life sacrifice) and slayed the motivating principles of our animal nature, he was born again.

If you remember, Pharaoh only gave in after he was struck by the 10 commandments/10 plagues ending in the death of the first born of Egypt. In other words the 10 commandments were intended to lead us eventually to putting to death our fleshly first born nature (the first born of EGYPT) and being born again (letting the Israelites go free).

Egypt represents the flesh "the Egpytians you're neighbours GREAT OF FLESH", and putting to death our first born nature which is unregenerate and becoming born again a Israelite, after the Spirit not the flesh. When Paul speaks of the "natural man" in the New Testament he quotes the prophecies of Egypt. As Egypt has this significance.

Most these Bible allegorys are about being born again. Like Cain and Abel (only Abel made the life sacrifice) and made the acceptable life sacrifice (killed the animal which represents putting to death that nature in us), the image of the beast, and becoming born again. Cain did not make the life sacrifice so his worship was unacceptable, he was not born again.

Pharaoh represents our pride and ego that stops us worshipping God, as the Pharaoh prevented the Israelites going free and worshipping God so our stubborn pride must be persuaded to let the Israelite in us go free.

Edited by Mercia2, 03 April 2010 - 09:10 PM.

[Mercia2]

THE EXODUS STORY - about being born again.

Remember Jesus is also revealed (typologically) in the Bible stories.

THE EXODUS ALLEGORY:

This famous Jewish story relates the story of Moses leading his people out of captivity in Egypt by miraculously parting the Red Sea. There follows 40 years of wandering in the wilderness in search of the Promised Land, at the end of which Moses dies. It is his successor, Joshua ben Nun, who miraculously parts the river Jordan to lead the Jews to the destined homeland. The 40 days (a day for a year principle) in which Jesus went into the wilderness represents this event. Notice He was tempted in the wilderness to doubt God, to blaspheme (3rd plage the frogs) yet eventually overcome both his bodily temptations and the doubts of His mind.

It is important to understand right up front that the name "Jesus" itself comes from Exodus (Joshua/Jesus makes his first appearance in Exodus 17:8). In Greek the Hebrew name "Joshua" becomes "Jesus".

This "Joshua" of history, whose name also means "Jesus". In the days of the first century this was completely obvious that they shared the same name. In fact if a Jew was writing for a Gentile audience then he would have written "Jesus" and not "Joshua" This is not a coincidence.

In Hebrew the name Joshua/Jesus is written with the letters Yod Heh Shin Vah Heh.
The letters Yod Heh Vah Heh (minus the Shin) is known as the Tetragrammaton and was extremely significant to Jews, as they were used to signify the unpronounceable name of God, usually rendered today with added vowels as either Jehovah or Yahweh. As Philo explains, when the middle letter Shin, known as the Holy Letter, is added, the name means "Saviour of the Lord".

Answer for yourself: Then does "Joshua" and or "Jesus" mean "Savior of the Lord"? Yes!

The "Christ" is also linked to the Exodus. Paul tells us (Heb. 11:24-27).

Jews and Christians, understood Exodus to be a spiritual allegory.

THE ALLEGORY EXPLAINED...COMING OUT OF EGYPT

Egypt represents the flesh " the EGYPTIANS your neighbours, are GREAT OF FLESH" (Ezek. 16:26). When the initiate identifies with only the body and the flesh they are "in captivity". To "come forth out of Egypt" was understood as leaving behind the temptations and desires of what is natural and the slavery represents the addiction to those lusts (remember the Israelites wanted to return to Egypt and to the fine cloth and the abundance of food).

Hippolytus recounts for us that those who are ignorant...are Egyptians in need of departing Egypt; that is from their fleshly centered existence (Hippolytus, Ref., 5.11).

Man is first "captive" (in Egypt). Then when he/she turns to God they are "called", yet to be "chosen" (in Israel) that man has to overcome by the power of Spirit and faith at which point he comes into the spiritual degree, the spiritual promised land, and like Israel is "chosen". This is the spiritual sense of the Old Testament, the important sense. Thus, "many are called but few are chosen".


CROSSING THE RED SEA..."BAPTISM"...FIRST STAGE

Crossing the Red Sea was understood as symbolizing a purifying baptism, which is the first stage of initiation on the path of spiritual awakening". This in Judaism was called being "born again". Explaining that Exodus should be understood "allegorically", Paul writes:

"Our ancestors passed through the Red Sea and so received baptism into the fellowship of Moses" (I Cor. 10:1-6): Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. (KJV)

Initiation by baptism begins a process in which initiates must face their doubts and confusion, symbolized by the Jews being afflicted in the desert for 40 years.

THE DEATH OF MOSES...SECOND STAGE

The next stage is experiencing the "death" of the old self which was represented by the death of Moses. Moses then results in Joshua/Jesus (Joshua was his successor).

THE PROMISED LAND ACHIEVED...SALVATION...THIRD STAGE

It is through this new Moses, this Joshua/Jesus, that one completes the journey to the Promised Land, representing the "reborn" one. It is only through this "new man" (Joshua/Jesus) that the goal of salvation can be achieved in the Old Testament for Israel. "But in Christ it is not circumcision or uncircumcision that counts BUT THE POWER OF THE NEW BIRTH. To all who live by this principle, to the TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD" Peter 2:5. It is a mindset that makes us a spiritual Egyptian, and it is a mindset that makes us a spiritual Israelite. They are symbols.

The basic structure of the Exodus allegory, representing the fundamental stages of our journey. When you possess the keys it can be seen on a deeper level to be the birth, life, death, and rebirth and the spiritual journey of every man.


PARALLELS TO THE JOSHUA/JESUS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

This same Exodus story is retold through the Christ of the New Testament.

BEING BORN AGAIN...BAPTISM...FIRST STAGE

In the Exodus this is the crossing of the Red Sea, which inaugurates 40 years of wandering in the wilderness. We find the exact same thing inn the Jesus story represented by Jesus baptism, followed by his 40 days in the wilderness.

DEATH OF THE OLD SELF...THE "OLD MAN"...SECOND STAGE

The next stage in the process of initiation is the "death" of the old self. This is represented in the Exodus by the death of Moses and by the death of Jesus on the cross.

Answer for yourself: Does Paul teach this Exodus allegory through the New Testament "Christ"? He sure does. Rom 6:6 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him (Christ), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (KJV)

Eph 4:22-23 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind (KJV)

Col 3:9-10 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: (KJV)

In Col 3:9-10 Paul appeals to believers to not fall back into lives typified by sin and fleshly deeds. To go back into captivity in Egypt

Col 1:27 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (KJV)

JESUS' RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD...SALVATION...THIRD STAGE

The experience is represented in Exodus by Joshua-Jesus crossing to the Promised Land. This is the salvation of Israel as depicted in the Old Testament.

Edited by Mercia2, 21 November 2006 - 12:07 AM.

[Mercia2]

COMPARING THE STRUCTURE OF THE EXODUS WITH THE JESUS STORY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT...SEEN AS INITIATION ALLEGORIES

INITIATION PROCESS

PURIFICATION
Old Testament...Exodus' example: Crossing of the Red Sea
New Testament...Jesus example: Baptism by John

DEATH OF THE OLD SELF
Old Testament...Exodus example: Death of Moses
New Testament...Jesus example: Crucifixion of Jesus

The earliest Christians understood the Exodus allegory. That being so the original Christians classified people as "the captive, the called and the chosen". These terms clearly derive from the Exodus.
Those who have heard the call to awaken and begun the spiritual journey by being initiated into the Outer Mysteries of Christianity are like those Jews who were "called out of Egypt" to begin the journey to their true home. Those who have undergone the process of purification and spiritual struggle necessary to prepare themselves chosen are like those "chosen people" whom Joshua-Jesus leads across the river Jordan to the Promised Land. (Mead, Fragments of a Faith Forgotten, 1906, p. 186).

Early Christians were well aware of the parallels between Jesus Christ and the Jesus Christ of Exodus. Justin Martyr, for example, explains that the Christian Jesus will lead his people to the Promised Land just as the Jesus of Exodus led his people to the Promised Land (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Typho, chap. 113). Justin entitled this chapter "Joshua was a figure of Christ." Justin referred to the Old Testament Joshua 38 times as the Jew Typho that the Hebrew Scriptures are full of references to Jesus. Justin traces the motif of the cross to Exodus, where Moses holds up a serpent on a cross and says, "If you look at this image and believe, you shall be saved by it" (Num. 21:8). This source is made explicit in The Gospel of John, "The Son of Man must be lifted up as the serpent was lifted up by Moses in the wilderness." (John 3:14)

Other, more incidental, motifs found in the NT also come from Exodus. Once he has crossed the river Jordan, the Jesus of Exodus selects 12 men to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. After his baptism in the river Jordan, the Jesus of the gospels likewise selects 12 men as his immediate followers (John 3:13).

In the Bible, the Pharaoh represents the pride of natural mans own intelligence; "because the heart of PHAROAH is lifted up in his height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, strangers shall cutt him off and cast him forth in the day he went down to the grave, I covered the deep over him. Thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised" (Ezek 31:10-18).

Mans intellectual pride is his first enemy, signfied by the stubborn Pharoah and within the text itself the pharoah class is snared as to their charachter - the Egyptian king must be struck by 10 laws, ten plagues, which shall eventually kill his first born. The firstborn is the natural man, the first Adam. An allegory talking of spiritual death of the first born of Egypt and at length the moritification of his first born nature; and entry into the spiritual Promised Land.

The first born (Egypt) does not receive the inheritance, only (Israel = spiritual man) receives the inheritance. Hence Israel is called Gods "inheritance" (His people).

In this allegory that is intended to be internalized, the Egyptian Pharaoh represents the stubborn intellect which is the ruling king of the thoughts of natural man. In effect, the Pharaoah, the first born nature of Egypt, and the Israelites that want to be free are all aspects of thoughts and affections in this regard.

The story of Pharoah's stubborn denial to let the Israelites become born again as to those new affections (spiritual affections of truth); and to come forth out of Egypt (the natural degree) and into Israel (the spiritual degree) following the death of the first born nature of Egypt is the story of us all, and the point from which we so often begin. Many of the Israelites wanted to return to Egypt, because they desires the "goodly and dainty" things they had left behind. Which makes it all the more difficult in todays materialistic societies, because they were double minded they never fully made it to the promised land - but some of us will. That is if we can first understand that it is that stubborn Pharaoh within all of us that must be overcome in order to let the Israelites go free.

Eph 3:3-6 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (KJV)

[MAYLEAF]

Mercia2, on Nov 20 2006, 11:42 PM, said:

THE EXODUS STORY - about being born again.

Remember Jesus is also revealed (typologically) in the Bible stories.

THE EXODUS ALLEGORY:

This famous Jewish story relates the story of Moses leading his people out of captivity in Egypt by miraculously parting the Red Sea. There follows 40 years of wandering in the wilderness in search of the Promised Land, at the end of which Moses dies. It is his successor, Joshua ben Nun, who miraculously parts the river Jordan to lead the Jews to the destined homeland. The 40 days (a day for a year principle) in which Jesus went into the wilderness represents this event. Notice He was tempted in the wilderness to doubt God, to blaspheme (3rd plage the frogs) yet eventually overcome both his bodily temptations and the doubts of His mind.

It is important to understand right up front that the name "Jesus" itself comes from Exodus (Joshua/Jesus makes his first appearance in Exodus 17:8). In Greek the Hebrew name "Joshua" becomes "Jesus".

This "Joshua" of history, whose name also means "Jesus". In the days of the first century this was completely obvious that they shared the same name. In fact if a Jew was writing for a Gentile audience then he would have written "Jesus" and not "Joshua" This is not a coincidence.

In Hebrew the name Joshua/Jesus is written with the letters Yod Heh Shin Vah Heh.
The letters Yod Heh Vah Heh (minus the Shin) is known as the Tetragrammaton and was extremely significant to Jews, as they were used to signify the unpronounceable name of God, usually rendered today with added vowels as either Jehovah or Yahweh. As Philo explains, when the middle letter Shin, known as the Holy Letter, is added, the name means "Saviour of the Lord".

Answer for yourself: Then does "Joshua" and or "Jesus" mean "Savior of the Lord"? Yes!

The "Christ" is also linked to the Exodus. Paul tells us (Heb. 11:24-27).

Jews and Christians, understood Exodus to be a spiritual allegory.

THE ALLEGORY EXPLAINED...COMING OUT OF EGYPT

Egypt represents the flesh " the EGYPTIANS your neighbours, are GREAT OF FLESH" (Ezek. 16:26). When the initiate identifies with only the body and the flesh they are "in captivity". To "come forth out of Egypt" was understood as leaving behind the temptations and desires of what is natural and the slavery represents the addiction to those lusts (remember the Israelites wanted to return to Egypt and to the fine cloth and the abundance of food).

Hippolytus recounts for us that those who are ignorant...are Egyptians in need of departing Egypt; that is from their fleshly centered existence (Hippolytus, Ref., 5.11).

Man is first "captive" (in Egypt). Then when he/she turns to God they are "called", yet to be "chosen" (in Israel) that man has to overcome by the power of Spirit and faith at which point he comes into the spiritual degree, the spiritual promised land, and like Israel is "chosen". This is the spiritual sense of the Old Testament, the important sense. Thus, "many are called but few are chosen".


CROSSING THE RED SEA..."BAPTISM"...FIRST STAGE

Crossing the Red Sea was understood as symbolizing a purifying baptism, which is the first stage of initiation on the path of spiritual awakening". This in Judaism was called being "born again". Explaining that Exodus should be understood "allegorically", Paul writes:

"Our ancestors passed through the Red Sea and so received baptism into the fellowship of Moses" (I Cor. 10:1-6): Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. (KJV)

Initiation by baptism begins a process in which initiates must face their doubts and confusion, symbolized by the Jews being afflicted in the desert for 40 years.

THE DEATH OF MOSES...SECOND STAGE

The next stage is experiencing the "death" of the old self which was represented by the death of Moses. Moses then results in Joshua/Jesus (Joshua was his successor).

THE PROMISED LAND ACHIEVED...SALVATION...THIRD STAGE

It is through this new Moses, this Joshua/Jesus, that one completes the journey to the Promised Land, representing the "reborn" one. It is only through this "new man" (Joshua/Jesus) that the goal of salvation can be achieved in the Old Testament for Israel. "But in Christ it is not circumcision or uncircumcision that counts BUT THE POWER OF THE NEW BIRTH. To all who live by this principle, to the TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD" Peter 2:5. It is a mindset that makes us a spiritual Egyptian, and it is a mindset that makes us a spiritual Israelite. They are symbols.

The basic structure of the Exodus allegory, representing the fundamental stages of our journey. When you possess the keys it can be seen on a deeper level to be the birth, life, death, and rebirth and the spiritual journey of every man.


PARALLELS TO THE JOSHUA/JESUS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

This same Exodus story is retold through the Christ of the New Testament.

BEING BORN AGAIN...BAPTISM...FIRST STAGE

In the Exodus this is the crossing of the Red Sea, which inaugurates 40 years of wandering in the wilderness. We find the exact same thing inn the Jesus story represented by Jesus baptism, followed by his 40 days in the wilderness.

DEATH OF THE OLD SELF...THE "OLD MAN"...SECOND STAGE

The next stage in the process of initiation is the "death" of the old self. This is represented in the Exodus by the death of Moses and by the death of Jesus on the cross.

Answer for yourself: Does Paul teach this Exodus allegory through the New Testament "Christ"? He sure does. Rom 6:6 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him (Christ), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (KJV)

Eph 4:22-23 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind (KJV)

Col 3:9-10 9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: (KJV)

In Col 3:9-10 Paul appeals to believers to not fall back into lives typified by sin and fleshly deeds. To go back into captivity in Egypt

Col 1:27 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (KJV)

JESUS' RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD...SALVATION...THIRD STAGE

The experience is represented in Exodus by Joshua-Jesus crossing to the Promised Land. This is the salvation of Israel as depicted in the Old Testament.

Hey just reading threw your post have you ever heard of "born form above" instead of "born again"

[Hawleyluyah]

Mercia2, on Nov 20 2006, 06:45 PM, said:

COMPARING THE STRUCTURE OF THE EXODUS WITH THE JESUS STORY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT...SEEN AS INITIATION ALLEGORIES

INITIATION PROCESS

PURIFICATION
Old Testament...Exodus' example: Crossing of the Red Sea
New Testament...Jesus example: Baptism by John

DEATH OF THE OLD SELF
Old Testament...Exodus example: Death of Moses
New Testament...Jesus example: Crucifixion of Jesus

The earliest Christians understood the Exodus allegory. That being so the original Christians classified people as "the captive, the called and the chosen". These terms clearly derive from the Exodus.
Those who have heard the call to awaken and begun the spiritual journey by being initiated into the Outer Mysteries of Christianity are like those Jews who were "called out of Egypt" to begin the journey to their true home. Those who have undergone the process of purification and spiritual struggle necessary to prepare themselves chosen are like those "chosen people" whom Joshua-Jesus leads across the river Jordan to the Promised Land. (Mead, Fragments of a Faith Forgotten, 1906, p. 186).

Early Christians were well aware of the parallels between Jesus Christ and the Jesus Christ of Exodus. Justin Martyr, for example, explains that the Christian Jesus will lead his people to the Promised Land just as the Jesus of Exodus led his people to the Promised Land (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Typho, chap. 113). Justin entitled this chapter "Joshua was a figure of Christ." Justin referred to the Old Testament Joshua 38 times as the Jew Typho that the Hebrew Scriptures are full of references to Jesus. Justin traces the motif of the cross to Exodus, where Moses holds up a serpent on a cross and says, "If you look at this image and believe, you shall be saved by it" (Num. 21:8). This source is made explicit in The Gospel of John, "The Son of Man must be lifted up as the serpent was lifted up by Moses in the wilderness." (John 3:14)

Other, more incidental, motifs found in the NT also come from Exodus. Once he has crossed the river Jordan, the Jesus of Exodus selects 12 men to represent the 12 tribes of Israel. After his baptism in the river Jordan, the Jesus of the gospels likewise selects 12 men as his immediate followers (John 3:13).

In the Bible, the Pharaoh represents the pride of natural mans own intelligence; "because the heart of PHAROAH is lifted up in his height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, strangers shall cutt him off and cast him forth in the day he went down to the grave, I covered the deep over him. Thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised" (Ezek 31:10-18).

Mans intellectual pride is his first enemy, signfied by the stubborn Pharoah and within the text itself the pharoah class is snared as to their charachter - the Egyptian king must be struck by 10 laws, ten plagues, which shall eventually kill his first born. The firstborn is the natural man, the first Adam. An allegory talking of spiritual death of the first born of Egypt and at length the moritification of his first born nature; and entry into the spiritual Promised Land.

The first born (Egypt) does not receive the inheritance, only (Israel = spiritual man) receives the inheritance. Hence Israel is called Gods "inheritance" (His people).

In this allegory that is intended to be internalized, the Egyptian Pharaoh represents the stubborn intellect which is the ruling king of the thoughts of natural man. In effect, the Pharaoah, the first born nature of Egypt, and the Israelites that want to be free are all aspects of thoughts and affections in this regard.

The story of Pharoah's stubborn denial to let the Israelites become born again as to those new affections (spiritual affections of truth); and to come forth out of Egypt (the natural degree) and into Israel (the spiritual degree) following the death of the first born nature of Egypt is the story of us all, and the point from which we so often begin. Many of the Israelites wanted to return to Egypt, because they desires the "goodly and dainty" things they had left behind. Which makes it all the more difficult in todays materialistic societies, because they were double minded they never fully made it to the promised land - but some of us will. That is if we can first understand that it is that stubborn Pharaoh within all of us that must be overcome in order to let the Israelites go free.

Eph 3:3-6 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (KJV)

Just something to consider in your thinking.
Try looking at Moshe as John the baptist who leads the people away from Egypt (sin) but still wondering in the wilderness. Moshe(John) then anoints Hoshĕa, which means deliverer, with the name Yahushua, which means Yahweh is salvation, this event being the equivalent of Messiah's baptism, and Yahweh's spirit descending on him.
Soon Yahushua goes to spy out the land of promise, this being Yahushua Messiah's death and resurrection.
The land was right for the taking the people rejected it and wondered for 40 years, and with Messiah he said the kingdom was at hand, the people rejected him, and we are left wondering.
In the end Yahushua lead his people into the promise land, and in the end Yahushua Messiah will lead us into the land of promise.

Jos 6:16 And it came to be at the seventh time, when the priests blew the horns, that Yahushua said to the people, “Shout, for יהוה has given you the city!

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Thank you for your time.

[Lectron]

Hawleyluyah, on Apr 13 2009, 05:50 AM, said:

Just something to consider in your thinking.
Try looking at Moshe as John the baptist who leads the people away from Egypt (sin) but still wondering in the wilderness.

It is Moses who is typically Christ

... all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor10:1ff

but then Christ is seen in so many things, they all point to him!

We have no need of shadow and type, for we see him face to face and await the same promise

Quote

Moshe(John) then anoints Hoshĕa, which means deliverer, with the name Yahushua, which means Yahweh is salvation, this event being the equivalent of Messiah's baptism, and Yahweh's spirit descending on him.
Soon Yahushua goes to spy out the land of promise, this being Yahushua Messiah's death and resurrection.
The land was right for the taking the people rejected it and wondered for 40 years, and with Messiah he said the kingdom was at hand, the people rejected him, and we are left wondering.
In the end Yahushua lead his people into the promise land, and in the end Yahushua Messiah will lead us into the land of promise.

Jos 6:16 And it came to be at the seventh time, when the priests blew the horns, that Yahushua said to the people, “Shout, for יהוה has given you the city!

Rev 11:15 And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Thank you for your time.

The promise being:
this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11

[Richie]

Lectron, on Apr 13 2009, 12:44 AM, said:

Hawleyluyah, on Apr 13 2009, 05:50 AM, said:

Just something to consider in your thinking.
Try looking at Moshe as John the baptist who leads the people away from Egypt (sin) but still wondering in the wilderness.

It is Moses who is typically Christ

... all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Cor10:1ff

but then Christ is seen in so many things, they all point to him!

Yes Moses points forward to Christ but in another aspect he points forward to John too - the last of the prophets under the Law of Moses.

[Mercia2]

Thanks everyone for your excellent contributions.

All very interesting.