9 replies to this topic

[Dawn]

A question for anyone familiar with Hebrew -

I've done a Bible study from the OT about demons (very revealing and I should have done it years ago: it reveals what demons are, what their origins are and what God's opinion of them are) using interlinear on PowerBible and I just wanted to check something:

There are only four references to "devils" in the OT and only two Hebrew words used: (1) twice the word "devils" is the Heb. word "saiyr" (or "satyr" - a mythological half-man half-goat creature).

(2) twice the word "devils" is the Heb. word "shed". But I thought the plural would have been "shedim"? Why is it only shed? Is "shed" plural? Or does it depend on what verb is used with it again?

[Tarkus]

Dawn, on Sep 18 2006, 10:27 PM, said:

There are only four references to "devils" in the OT and only two Hebrew words used: (1) twice the word "devils" is the Heb. word "saiyr" (or "satyr" - a mythological half-man half-goat creature).

(2) twice the word "devils" is the Heb. word "shed". But I thought the plural would have been "shedim"? Why is it only shed? Is "shed" plural? Or does it depend on what verb is used with it again?

All four verses use plurals. Look them up in a Hebrew bible and you will see that Lev 17 and 2 Chr 11 have S'YRM or S'YRYM (sayrim) while Deut 32 and Ps 106 have SDYM (shedim).

An analytical lexicon will allow you to see which form of a word is being used - but you have to look it up using the exact form that you find in the text - not an English translation. If you had done that in this case you would have seen straight away that the words were plural anyway - without turning up the lexicon at all.

Lexicons and concordances which use the English versions as their starting point don't normally indicate singular or plural, or other relevant syntactical choices.

T

[Dawn]

Thanks Tarkus - I didn't know that. A simple answer to my question.

[Steven]

Tarkus, on Sep 18 2006, 11:39 AM, said:

An analytical lexicon will allow you to see which form of a word is being used

There is such a thing? You mean I learnt Hebrew syntax for nothing??? What will they think of next! ...this is the sort of thing that leads to people using calculators instead of doing long division

Can you recommend one?

[Tarkus]

Steven, on Sep 20 2006, 03:23 AM, said:

Tarkus, on Sep 18 2006, 11:39 AM, said:

An analytical lexicon will allow you to see which form of a word is being used

There is such a thing? You mean I learnt Hebrew syntax for nothing??? What will they think of next! ...this is the sort of thing that leads to people using calculators instead of doing long division

Can you recommend one?

I don't own one. No, actually I do, but for Greek. But I'm sure I've seen an analytical Hebrew lexicon many years ago, I think it was attributed to Davidson. It was in one of those enormous English country houses that doubles as a second hand book emporium, and it was *very* expensive.

[Martyn]

Tarkus, on Sep 19 2006, 04:42 PM, said:

one of those enormous English country houses that doubles as a second hand book emporium

I'm going to try for squatters' rights.

[InChristAlways]

Steven, on Sep 19 2006, 10:23 AM, said:

Tarkus, on Sep 18 2006, 11:39 AM, said:

An analytical lexicon will allow you to see which form of a word is being used

There is such a thing? You mean I learnt Hebrew syntax for nothing??? What will they think of next! ...this is the sort of thing that leads to people using calculators instead of doing long division

Can you recommend one?

Hi Steven Have you ever used this interlinear. Bring up a hebrew or greek chapter, click on the word below the greek/hebrew word and it will list that form of the word where it is used and correct tenses/plural/singular/masculine/feminen/neuter etc...

That is how I found out about this form of the greek word "cast" in Gala 44 and Revel 11. I really love it so far and I even use it to read Paul's epistles a lot of time.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Gala 4: 25 for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and doth correspond to the Jerusalem that now [is], and is in servitude with her children, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is the mother of us all, .....30 but what saith the Writing? `Be you casting out! [#1544 ekbale] the maid-servant and her son, for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman;' [Genesis 21:10]

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing! and Measure Ye! the Sanctuary/Naos? of God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it 2 And the Court [#833], the one without[ exqen] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be you Casting- Out! [#1544 ekbale ] Out-side [#1854 exw] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because it/she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

Edited by InChristAlways, 20 September 2006 - 04:58 AM.

[Steven]

InChristAlways, on Sep 20 2006, 04:15 AM, said:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Thanks ICA. I'm a bit of a sceptic when it comes to short-cuts, but yes I can see that this is a useful and nicely democratic tool. Of course in the long run there is no substitute for context.
God bless
S

[Jeremy]

Martyn, on Sep 19 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

Tarkus, on Sep 19 2006, 04:42 PM, said:

one of those enormous English country houses that doubles as a second hand book emporium

I'm going to try for squatters' rights.

I thought he was talking about your house.

[Martyn]

I thought so too. But I have no analytical Greek lexicon.