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The Evil Spirit Sent To Saul


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#1 Fortigurn

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 01:32 AM

God removed His Holy Spirit from Saul, and instead sent him a 'spirit of ill will' or 'distressing spirit', as some translations render this:

1 Samuel 16:
14But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.  


1) What is the Spirit of Yahweh here? It is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the Old Testament as the Spirit of Yahweh.

2) Where does the evil spirit come from? Does it come from satan? Does it do his will? No. It comes from God, and it does His will.

3) If the Spirit of Yahweh in the first part of the verse is supernatural, then why isn't the evil spirit in the second part of the verse supernatural? The answer to this is that the Spirit of Yahweh is demonstrably used in the Old Testament to refer to the Holy Spirit (this is verifiable), whereas the only previous use of the Hebrew phrase here translated 'evil spirit' is demonstrably a feeling of ill will between two parties. This is verifiable.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
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‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

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#2 Fortigurn

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 01:33 AM

Since the Hebrew phrase translated 'evil spirit' in the KJV has only been used once before this passage, and since it did not there refer to a supernatural being doing the will of satan (have a look for yourself), then there is no reason to understand the 'evil spirit' here in any other way than the meaning in Judges 9.

4) What do the servants of Saul think? Do they believe he is being tormented by a minion of satan?

5And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.


No. They believe that this is an affliction sent by God. Where is satan in all this?

5) Do the servants of Saul insist on an exorcism, or resort to a priest to have the 'evil spirit' cast out?

16Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.


No. They recommend that they find a skilled musician, insisting that when the musician plays, Saul will be well. They make no suggestion that anything supernatural is occurring.
Now do you recommend that the best response to an attack by one of satan's minions is to play some music, in order to send it away? If not - why not? :pull:
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">Apologetics

#3 Fortigurn

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 01:33 AM

6) Does the suggestion of Saul's servants work?

23And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


Yes. Whenever David plays, Saul is 'refreshed and well', and the 'evil spirit' goes away. There is no suggestion that anything supernatural is occurring. We are told very bluntly that music causes evil spirits to leave, though we know that this 'evil spirit' returned to Saul at times.

7) Does the record here indicate a supernatural minion of satan, or a troubled spirit sent by God as an affliction? The evidence, I believe, points to the latter. This interpretation is also verifiable. Show me someone 'possessed' with an evil spirit, and let's have some good music and see what happens. :pull:
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">Apologetics

#4 Fortigurn

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 01:33 AM

The real problem for people who believe that these 'evil spirits' referred to in these two places of the Old Testament are supernatural beings, is that they cannot escape the fact that Scripture insists that supernatural means are not required to send them away. Just some good music is all that is necessary.

And the reason why these passages remain such a stumblingblock to thise who believe that they refer to supernatural beings, is that these 'evil spirits' are described in the Scriptural record as:

1) Being sent by God to do His will, not as the minions of satan.

2) Behaving in a manner identical to psychological distress.

The fact that these 'evil spirits' are sent away by taking steps which people naturally use to soothe their troubled feelings, is very telling.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">Apologetics

#5 Fortigurn

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Posted 14 June 2003 - 01:34 AM

What was that 'evil spirit' sent by God to Saul?

I believe it was a psychological affliction. Let's see what an earlier 'evil spirit' sent by God is:

Judges 9:
22When Abimelech had reigned three years over Israel,
23Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:


1) If these 'evil spirits' are supernatural beings who are the buddies of satan and do his evil will, then why does God always send them?

2) How do you send an supernatural evil being 'between' two groups of people? Do they have to share?

3) What do other translations say?

TLB:

22-23Three years later God stirred up trouble between King Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, and they revolted.


NAB:

22 When Abimelech had ruled Israel for three years,
23 God put bad feelings between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who rebelled against Abimelech.


NKJV:

22 After Abimelech had reigned over Israel three years,
23 God sent a spirit of ill will between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech,


NLT:

22 After Abimelech had ruled over Israel for three years,
23 God stirred up trouble between Abimelech and the people of Shechem, and they revolted.


CEV:

22 Abimelech had been a military commander of Israel for three years,
23-24 when God decided to punish him and the leaders of Shechem for killing Gideon’s seventy sons.
So God turned the leaders of Shechem against Abimelech.


TEV:

22 Abimelech ruled Israel for three years.
23Then God made Abimelech and the men of Shechem hostile to each other, and they rebelled against him.


Edited by Fortigurn, 14 June 2003 - 01:34 AM.

Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
target="_blank">Apologetics




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