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Muslims Did Jesus lie to the Jews


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#1 InChristAlways

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Posted 01 April 2006 - 02:13 PM

Question for muslims. Did Jesus lie to the jews? You call our Apostle Paul a Liar and False so let us see if you call Jesus that also. :coffee:

http://www.christian...o-the-jews.html

Did Jesus Lie to the Jews?

Question for muslims mainly. Is this an Inspired verse by Jesus in the NT and how does Islam view it? Peace

Luke 21:22 "For these are the Days of Vengeance, that ALL #3956] Things which are Written may be Fulfilled.

3956 AV - all 748, all things 170, every 117, all men 41, whosoever 31,
everyone 28, whole 12, all manner of 11, every man 11,
no + 3756 9, every thing 7, any 7, whatsoever 6,
whosoever + 3739 + 302 3, always + 1223 3, daily + 2250 2,
any thing 2, no + 3361 2, not tr 7, misc 26; 1243

3956. pas pas including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:--all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

Matt 24:29 `And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken; 30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

Edited by InChristAlways, 01 April 2006 - 02:15 PM.

Luke 21:22 "For these are the DAYS of VENGEANCE, that ALL THINGS which are WRITTEN may be FULFILLED1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL THINGS is NIGH at Hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.!

#2 EliYah

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:01 AM

:book: These questions of yours are ridiculous. The Islamic beliefs regarding Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) are not dependant on the verses of the New Testament in the Bible. So why should it be an issue if you find a contradiction between what the New Testament says and what the Quran and ahadith (plural of hadith) says? It is not an issue. It is not a problem. Islam reveals the true Christ (peace be upon him) and Muslims can know him better than you ever could.

As for your current question, it is offensive and unnecessary. Nay, it is silly. For a start, of course Muslims do not believe Jesus ever lied, because they believe that messengers don't and can't lie. Lying is a sin, and Christ (peace be upon him), being a holy messenger of Allah, did not committ any sin.

Plus, the reason you suggest he is lying is based on your personal interpretation of a verse, which in any case, is contained in the Bible new testament. So the Muslims may respond by saying that, IF that verse means what YOU say it means, then it must be false, because Jesus did not lie, and would not say anything that would prove to be false.

But how you prove any thing conclusive or remotely convincing from that verse and your definitions remains to be seen. Your argument is weak anyway, you seem to be stabbing in the dark. You keep asking, do you believe in revelation, daniel, this book, that book... when will you realise?

#3 EliYah

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:13 AM

And in any case, I accept that verse, all of it! And it is not hard that a person should be Muslim and believe that that verse is true. And, if God wills, I shall bring verses from the Qur'an and ahadith which talk of the same event as this verse does i.e. the return of Christ to the earth.

#4 He-man

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 12:21 PM

And in any case, I accept that verse, all of it! And it is not hard that a person should be Muslim and believe that that verse is true. And, if God wills, I shall bring verses from the Qur'an and ahadith which talk of the same event as this verse does i.e. the return of Christ to the earth.

How about these verses>>>And who is this Prophet???
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Is Mohammad in the bible? "
1 Cor 14:36-37 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord
Matt 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

John 19:33-37 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

And that scripture is from the Old Testament, do you believe the Old Testament?

Psalms 22:16-18 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Zech 12:9-10 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.

The lamb slain typified Christ the "Lamb of God," slain for the sins of the world. Christ "our Passover is sacrificed for us." 1 Cor. 5:7. According to the divine purpose, the true Lamb of God was slain at nearly the same time as "the Lord’s Passover," at the same season of the year, and at the same time of the day, as the daily sacrifice at the temple, the crucifixion beginning at the hour of the morning sacrifice and ending at the hour of the evening sacrifice.

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end

The second death signifies Eternal Death. The pain is not being allowed to live with God.
Ac 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Matt 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mark 1: 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

4396 προφητην prophetes prof-ay'-tace
A declarer, prophet, foreteller. the OT prophets, having foretold the kingdom, deeds and death, of Jesus the Messiah. of John the Baptist, the herald of Jesus the Messiah, the Messiah

from a compound of 4253 προ 4253 Before, in front of. Far & wide.
and 5346;φημι 5346 To bring to light, or make known by means of speech; hence, to speak, say, declare,utter, relate, tell, express an opinion


You are letting words slip!!!You also Conveniently forgot John 1:23-30and verse 45 We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
Sorry, but the words are "shall die" if you should speak in the name of OTHER gods!
to him 2980 λαλησαι to speak, 2532 kai and 3739 ον who 302 αν ever 2980 λαληση should speak 2089 επ in 3686 ονοματι the name 2316—2087 Θεων ετερων of other gods, 599 αποθανειται [shall die 3588 o 4396—1565 προφητην εκεινον that prophet].


Ac 7:37 [u]This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

And you stopped short why did you not include verse 45????
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Joh 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

And who is this Prophet???
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Lu 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Edited by He-man, 03 April 2006 - 12:24 PM.

He-man Called "THE SINGER"
1 Chr 25:5 King's seerer in the matters of God
1 Chr XV 16-22 "The Vocal & Instrumental Music of the Temple Service in the Reign of David"

#5 EliYah

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Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:54 PM

heman, you're doing the exact thing which I spoke about in my last post. Either you don't read my posts or you don't understand them.

:book:

#6 InChristAlways

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 04:48 PM

How about these verses>>>And who is this Prophet???
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.

The lamb slain typified Christ the "Lamb of God," slain for the sins of the world. Christ "our Passover is sacrificed for us." 1 Cor. 5:7. According to the divine purpose, the true Lamb of God was slain at nearly the same time as "the Lord’s Passover," at the same season of the year, and at the same time of the day, as the daily sacrifice at the temple, the crucifixion beginning at the hour of the morning sacrifice and ending at the hour of the evening sacrifice.

heman, you're doing the exact thing which I spoke about in my last post. Either you don't read my posts or you don't understand them.

:yuk:

Take heart Eliyah. The Bahai's faith also believe Muhammed is in the bible!!! :coffee: Just too bad that muhammad takes precedence over OUR DIVINE Scriptures.

Muhammad as the Last Prophet?? HAHAHAHAHA cough/gag. That leaves the jews without one. :book:

reve 11:3 and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth; 4 these are the two olive [trees], and the two lamp-stands that before the God of the earth do stand;

http://www.christian...-the-bible.html
Lamb, likewise for you:

If you'd like the books I mentioned (I, Daniel should be particularly helpful if you're studying that book!), simply send me a private message with your email address, and I'll get them to you!

BTW, IOV Muhammad is indeed mentioned in Revelation, though not by name. He's one of the Two Witnesses mentioned there.

Regards, Bruce

Edited by InChristAlways, 04 April 2006 - 04:51 PM.

Luke 21:22 "For these are the DAYS of VENGEANCE, that ALL THINGS which are WRITTEN may be FULFILLED1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL THINGS is NIGH at Hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.!

#7 EliYah

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 06:32 PM

The Qur'an does not say that Mohammad (pbuh) is mentioned in the Bible. The Qur'an says, to the nearest meaning, that the coming of Mohammad (pbuh) is mentioned in the scriptures of the people of the Book, i.e. the Torah and the Injil. It is possible that these mentions of Mohammad (pbuh) found in the original revelations of Allah to Moses and Jesus (pbut) are among the many passages which later became corrupted or even deleted.

I never said that Mohammad (pbuh) was mentioned in the Bible, nor did I say that Mohammad (pbuh) was not mentioned in the Bible. What I said is only with the knowledge revealed to us by Allah Himself, and no more, that he was mentioned in the Taurah and the Injil. Those who can find it in the Bible and even in the baghavad gita and other sacred texts, let them prove what they will, as the case may be. But I believe what the Qur'an says and :yuk: That is enough for me.

#8 InChristAlways

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 06:55 PM

Take heart Eliyah. The Bahai's faith also believe Muhammed is in the bible!!! birgits_coffee.gif Just too bad that muhammad takes precedence over OUR DIVINE Scriptures.

Muhammad as the Last Prophet?? HAHAHAHAHA cough/gag. That leaves the jews without one. mf_bookread.gif

reve 11:3 and I will give to My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy days, a thousand, two hundred, sixty, arrayed with sackcloth; 4 these are the two olive [trees], and the two lamp-stands that before the God of the earth do stand;

http://www.christian...-the-bible.html
Lamb, likewise for you:

If you'd like the books I mentioned (I, Daniel should be particularly helpful if you're studying that book!), simply send me a private message with your email address, and I'll get them to you!

BTW, IOV Muhammad is indeed mentioned in Revelation, though not by name. He's one of the Two Witnesses mentioned there.

Regards, Bruce

quote name='EliYah' post='250605' date='Apr 4 2006, 01:32 PM']
The Qur'an does not say that Mohammad (pbuh) is mentioned in the Bible. The Qur'an says, to the nearest meaning, that the coming of Mohammad (pbuh) is mentioned in the scriptures of the people of the Book, i.e. the Torah and the Injil. It is possible that these mentions of Mohammad (pbuh) found in the original revelations of Allah to Moses and Jesus (pbut) are among the many passages which later became corrupted or even deleted.

I never said that Mohammad (pbuh) was mentioned in the Bible, nor did I say that Mohammad (pbuh) was not mentioned in the Bible. What I said is only with the knowledge revealed to us by Allah Himself, and no more, that he was mentioned in the Taurah and the Injil. Those who can find it in the Bible and even in the baghavad gita and other sacred texts, let them prove what they will, as the case may be. But I believe what the Qur'an says and :yuk: That is enough for me.

That is your loss then. Unless you read the book of Revelation, the Bible will always be "incomplete" for you bro but that is your choice of course. Peace.

2 thess 2:10 and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved, 11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie, 12 that they may be judged--all who did not believe the truth, but were well pleased in the unrighteousness.

http://www.christian...-and-koran.html
Differences between Talmud and Koran

Edited by InChristAlways, 04 April 2006 - 06:58 PM.

Luke 21:22 "For these are the DAYS of VENGEANCE, that ALL THINGS which are WRITTEN may be FULFILLED1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL THINGS is NIGH at Hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.!

#9 sijistani

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 10:21 AM

Lying is a flaw and in relation to mortal beings a sin as well. The Prophets are sinless, flawless. They are perfect creation of God Almighty is He.

So, no way our Master Jesus Christ, may God's peace and blessings be upon him, can lie. To believe such a thing is apostasy in Islam.




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