mordecai, on Apr 4 2005, 09:41 PM, said:
Like I said before ev, why doesn't god put everyone he wants to believe of him in a building and make them immortal and indestructable while taking as much time as necessary to teach them the pointlessness of disobedience? Why not have a world with infinite resources and indestructable people so there is no need to sin because of scarcity, disease, etc?
Because that wouldn't take any effort on humanity's part. We'd all become cogs in a pretedermined wheel which effectively bypassed our free will by giving us perfection on a plate.
Explain to me why god designs a universe that promotes the very thing he hates?
He didn't; He designed a beautiful universe which humans went on to ruin.
Explain to me why god cannot generate infinite amounts of resources and re-absorb/re-cycle the waste from them eternally?
He could - but what would be the point?
Explain to me why god put us around a star that's going to explode once it's fuel runs out?
Because He knows that we'll all eventually be immortal, so the lifespan of our sun will cease to be relevant.
And to be perfectly frank, I personally believe that human beings - if left to their own devices - would destroy themselves several hundred million years before our sun dies, so it's a moot point.
Explain to me how god is going to interevene and prevent our star from exploding if he evolved the cosmos like OEC christadelphians believe?
He doesn't need to. (See below.)
Of which all those previous galaxies and the stars in them all eventually have exploded or will explode once their fuel runs out and such evidence gives us no comfort or reason to suspect that the biblical god will intervene when our sun dies as per christadelphian theology that the kingdom of god will be on earth and you guys will reign with jesus forever and ever around our little star.
I don't think that's an issue worth worrying about, Mord. When the time eventually comes for those stars to die, everyone who's still kicking around will be immortal anyway - so who cares?
May I remind you that the lifespan of Sol is currently estimated at 5 billion
years? And here you are talking about its immanent demise as if it's just around the corner!
There are other problems with gods alleged love and morality:
1) Everyone who doesn't hear of the bible automatically gets eternally destroyed for ever, for being born geographically distant from the biblical message. where was god's plan for these people? Oh right, he's a lazy god who gets slow and inefficient PEOPLE to spread his message which takes YEARS these people don't have and they end up dying not hearing anything and hence are gone forever despite the fact if they were very good people.
They're not "eternally destroyed forever"; they simply die without being resurrected. There's no "destruction" involved - and they lived as they chose to live, so what's the big deal?
If they were plunged into the depths of hell, you'd have a point. But they're not, so you don't.
2) Babies who die young, mentally handicapped, etc, can also have no salvation because they are 'incapable' (caused by god btw) of knowing the truth in any meaningful way.
As above. And their mental state is not "caused by God." That's just ridiculous. In many cases, they're actually killed by their parents (ie. smokers, drug users, etc.) who poison them with second-hand toxins while they're still in the womb.
God intentionally kills things for no reason or purpose.
He does nothing of the kind.
3) Natural disasters who snuffed out unbaptized children of believers, or do they get a free ride?
No, I don't believe they get a free ride - and I don't see anything evil about their demise by natural disaster, either.
4) Suicides of unbaptized children of believers, etc.
Them's the breaks, Mordecai.
I could go on and on about the people that don't get any consideration or love from god, they are just puppets or tools of an egotistical dictator of the bible. they get no love or justice at all in this life just through the time and place they were born which god ordained from the beginning. Hardly fair or just, it's a sick game and disgusting game.
There is way more injustice then their is justice, the fact that god eternally punishes anyone for finite actions proves he's not just, period. He has infinite amounts of time and power, he should be able to spend as much time that is needed on each and every inidividual. To not do so is to lower human status to that no better or worthy of love then a pet and animal, which is disgusting, we're gods pets, toys and playthings.
The fact that religious division exists, proves the bible and it's god is not an effective communicator, nor effective designer of beings capable of understanding his message. The ultimate blame falls upon god, and has nothing to do with free will. All beings with free will can't deny 2+2=4, so god could have easily communicated his message infallibly to everyone without the need for intermediaries, the fact that the bible god has to and MUST use intemediaries proves he's not god.
So basically, you want God to give everyone a free ride into the kingdom - regardless of whether or not they are capable of knowing Him, loving Him, obeying Him and believing in Him - without any effort on their part whatsoever, and you believe that anything less than this is both cruel and evil.