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Sep 22 2004, 11:28 PM
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#1
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![]() Pi ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: BTDF MD Posts: 731 Joined: 17-January 03 From: Auckland, NZ Member No.: 47 |
Hi
I read this in Brother Stephen Cox's article The Angels that Sinned: QUOTE However, at the time Peter and Jude wrote, 'Lucifer' was never used as a name for the devil. In fact Peter's own "day star" (2 Peter 1:19, meaning Christ) was rendered 'Lucifer' in Latin Bibles, and as a result in the early church 'Lucifer' was considered as a title of Christ, sung to in early hymns, and taken as a personal name by several bishops. I think this is fabulous evidence against the devil, but would be much more convincing if I could back it up with some sources. Does anyone have any early church quotes that prove this? Cheers, Sam |
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Sep 22 2004, 11:53 PM
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#2
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Omega ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Non-Member Posts: 17,889 Joined: 31-March 03 From: Right here, where else did you expect? Member No.: 112 |
-------------------- Housework has been a snap since I realized... "Hey! I'm a guy!".
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Sep 23 2004, 01:16 AM
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#3
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Tau ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: BTDF MD Posts: 3,814 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Birmingham, UK Member No.: 8 |
I just downloaded the Latin Vulgate from e-Sword, and here are the two times that the word 'lucifer' is used:
QUOTE (Isa 14:12) quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes QUOTE (2Peter 1:19) et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris This is what 2 Peter 1:19 says in Greek (with Strong's No.s): - QUOTE (GNT) και2532 εχομεν2192 βεβαιοτερον949 τον3588 προφητικον4397 λογον3056 ω3739 καλως2573 ποιειτε4160 προσεχοντες4337 ως5613 λυχνω3088 φαινοντι5316 εν1722 αυχμηρω850 τοπω5117 εως2193 ου3757 ημερα2250 διαυγαση1306 και2532 φωσφορος5459 ανατειλη393 εν1722 ταις3588 καρδιαις2588 υμων5216 The word in bold is the word 'phōsphoros' that the article Adanac linked to talks about. It's the word that the Vulgate translates as 'lucifer'. -------------------- "No, I am Spartacus."
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Sep 23 2004, 01:16 AM
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#4
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![]() Pi ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: BTDF MD Posts: 731 Joined: 17-January 03 From: Auckland, NZ Member No.: 47 |
Thanks Adanac.
I did a bit more work myself, and came up with this... The main bishop called Lucifer seems to be this guy, Bishop Lucifer of Cagliari. It's amazing that the Catholic Encyclopedia doesn't even raise an eyebrow at his *ahem* rather notable name! (But they do manage to advertise $200 worth of merchandise...) Evidence that Lucifer was an early title of Christ is 2 Peter 1:19 in the Vulgate, which I should have looked at earlier QUOTE et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris Sam |
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Sep 23 2004, 01:17 AM
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#5
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![]() Pi ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: BTDF MD Posts: 731 Joined: 17-January 03 From: Auckland, NZ Member No.: 47 |
Oh. Snap!
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Sep 23 2004, 02:50 AM
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#6
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Iota ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 139 Joined: 30-July 04 From: Ponca City Ok Member No.: 643 |
Searching my Latin Vulgate, I found one more that Luke apparently overlooked.
QUOTE Job 11:17 et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et cum te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer
-------------------- Former Roman Catholic; Former Oneness; and firm believer in an open service; I AM NOT A CHRISTADELPHIAN
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Sep 23 2004, 08:42 AM
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#7
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Tau ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: BTDF MD Posts: 3,814 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Birmingham, UK Member No.: 8 |
It's odd that - my e-Sword doesn't pick it up, but it's there when I turn up the reference.
-------------------- "No, I am Spartacus."
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