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#1 kabowdanan

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 12:11 PM

Our exhorter at Punchy this morning (a visitor from nearby Campsie) used the NIV for the verse mentioned in the topic as he felt it was a better translation.

NIV:

We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.


KJV:

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


Can you spot what he felt was better about it? Do you agree with what he said?

Does the NIV do a great job in it's translation on occasion? :shrug:
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat. Cave canem.

#2 Flappie

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 02:10 PM

Personally I like

endurance inspired by hope

better than

patience of hope

That to me says that we'll see and wait patiently. Being patient doesn't have the feel of fighting something, while enduring does. It's not just idle waiting, it's a constant struggle, and we keep struggling because of this hope.

But, that's probably because of my understanding of the word patience, or maybe it's changed meaning over the years...


The problem with the NIV is that it sometimes tries to translate the meaning of the words and not the actual words. This is all good, it makes the text clearer (for me anyway), until the translator has a different view of it all, and sees something implied that isn't actually implied.

Edited by Flappie, 16 November 2003 - 02:19 PM.

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#3 kabowdanan

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 07:40 PM

Personally I like

endurance inspired by hope

better than

patience of hope

That to me says that we'll see and wait patiently. Being patient doesn't have the feel of fighting something, while enduring does. It's not just idle waiting, it's a constant struggle, and we keep struggling because of this hope.


I agree

But, that's probably because of my understanding of the word patience, or maybe it's changed meaning over the years...


So the important question is, is it consistant with the original greek?

The problem with the NIV is that it sometimes tries to translate the meaning of the words and not the actual words. This is all good, it makes the text clearer (for me anyway), until the translator has a different view of it all, and sees something implied that isn't actually implied.


Correct. The NIV is the only translation that has attempted to be both word for word and interpretive. Which makes it both interesting and difficult.

In this case however, has it been accurate or inaccurate?
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat. Cave canem.

#4 Flappie

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 08:09 PM

5281 ὑπομονή [hupomone /hoop·om·on·ay/] n f. From 5278; TDNT 4:581; TDNTA 581; GK 5705; 32 occurrences; AV translates as “patience” 29 times, “enduring” once, “patient continuance” once, and “patient waiting” once. 1 steadfastness, constancy, endurance. 1A in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings. 1B patiently, and steadfastly. 2 a patient, steadfast waiting for. 3 a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance.

Strong, J. 1996.



It's definitily talking about being patient/enduring in our faith. Don't think it's saying they were patient people. So imho enduring does the verse more justice, if you see a difference between the 2. It depends on what you think patient means I suppose, but I wouldn't say the NIV was inaccurate (in this case).

Edited by Flappie, 16 November 2003 - 08:16 PM.

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#5 kabowdanan

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Posted 16 November 2003 - 09:28 PM

I agree. I don't think the KJV and NIV are saying anything different, it's just that in this case the NIV says it a lot better. That little word 'of' is read a little differently today then it was in 1611, the NIV does a great job in translating it into todays meaning.

Perhaps the NIV is worthy of more than just the trash can... :clap2:
Magna vis veritatis quae facile se per se ipsa defendat. Cave canem.

#6 Martyn

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Posted 17 November 2003 - 08:56 AM

NIV:

We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pardon my linguistic ignorance, but my 21st-century ears liked the NIV trans. It picked up the importance difference between believing something and doing it. :clap2:

#7 Doubting Thomas

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 02:17 AM

Perhaps the NIV is worthy of more than just the trash can... :bye:

I don't believe it's ever worthy of the trash can. Despite what some people think it sometimes does translate better, but I refuse to generalise that and say that it's always better, because it's not.
I usually use it in parallel with my KJV when I'm studying, and if the NIV is better and scripturally sound with the Greek/Hebrew, then I use it.
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#8 orthotomeo

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 09:48 PM

I think more important is to know the application of it. Paul tells us exactly what the 1.)work of faith, 2.)labour of love and 3.)patience of hope was!

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how 1.)ye turned to God from idols to 2.)serve the living and true God; 10 And to 3.)wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.


Work of Faith: To Separate ourselves from the cares of this world requires Faith
Labour of Love: The greatest commandments are to Love our God and brethren and serve him in Sincerity and truth (John 4)
Patience of Hope: Thessalonians points out the trials they endured (Acts 17) because of their hope!

If that's what you get from the NIV, :unsure:
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

#9 JesusMyWisdom

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 03:28 AM

Our exhorter at Punchy this morning (a visitor from nearby Campsie) used the NIV for the verse mentioned in the topic as he felt it was a better translation.

NIV:

We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.


KJV:

Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


Can you spot what he felt was better about it? Do you agree with what he said?

Does the NIV do a great job in it's translation on occasion? :bow:


NO, the NIV translations stinks as usual.

Faith does not "produce" works as it if were a power.

A "work of faith" means the works of the Christian way trusting they have a purpose.

Edited by JesusMyWisdom, 27 March 2004 - 03:28 AM.


#10 Guest_Alethia_*

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Posted 27 March 2004 - 03:37 AM

I have often said that the NIV is like the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead. When it is good, it can be very, very good; but when it is bad it is horrid.

It attempts to say what the translators think it means. If they were right, it is clearer. If they were wrong, the fact that there was an alternative way to read it is often completely obscured.




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