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It's All Greek to me...well a couple other languages too


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#1 Jeweliet01

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 02:50 AM

It seems I've asked this question a long time ago but can't remember where or what the answer was.... I'm interested in knowing if "you" (whoever reads this) believes that reading the Bible in English alone could lead someone to the Truth? What doctrines do you believe can/cannot be supported by English translation only... is knowing the details of the languages of the Bible necessary for understanding the Bible? In the past I found just relying on those who studied it out more...and want to study myself however, I don't realistically think I can learn the ins and outs of other languages quickly or with enough fluency at this point in my life....so now what? Is just looking up a word at a place like blueletter bible or some other lexicon or translator enough--- I don't think Jesus taught with such academic demands for people to understand....belief and faith ...but you didn't have to be a scholar in order to understand what he taught..in fact the 'scholars' had the most difficulty- at least the phrasisees etc.... the same goes for history too- its been a while since I've been in school and lots of that has slipped my mind...is reading the Bible enough? or is all this additional study necessary to avoid misinterpretation? Honestly, it seems that way...
Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

#2 Rebel

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:03 AM

One language is enough, unless you want to invest a lot more time into it. Bible is written so that even not very intelligent people can understand the main message.
One doesn't need to learn the language anyway to learn about particular word.

#3 Jeweliet01

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:07 AM

One language is enough, unless you want to invest a lot more time into it. Bible is written so that even not very intelligent people can understand the main message.
One doesn't need to learn the language anyway to learn about particular word.



it feels like there is so much research involved in studying the Bible - not just within the Bible though....thoughts?
Romans 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

#4 Rebel

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 03:34 AM

I think the ability to pause and reflect on the chapter or subject is the most important research. Sometimes we can look/study/research for details while missing the idea.

#5 castless

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:51 AM

In my short time on this sight I have received responses from various administrators pointing out that the reason why other churches that were not Christadelphian went "astray" was due to either errant translations, or in some cases "fraud" apparently committed by early translators. I have found a great deal of the differences in Doctrine between the "apostate" churches and "the Truth" come down to this translation issue.

I received one answer to a question and it cited details from more than 8 translations of the Bible to make it's point. The problem, the point never got made, it was a debate between several different translations. I am not a Christadelphian and my pastor frequently goes back to the original Greek words to describe things in the Bible. In one explanation of a Christadelphian belief it was more than 4 pages disputing the two schools of thought on Greek grammar and syntax.

I do not believe that God wanted us to be multi-lingual and a expert in Greek grammar in order to understand his word.

Edited by castless, 30 March 2010 - 04:53 AM.

John 8: (7-11) When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

#6 BDW

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 05:42 AM

What you have experience castless is simply the way that some of us like to thoroughly thrash something through. All that isn't actually required to demonstrate the simple points of doctrine we adhere to.
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#7 castless

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:00 AM

What you have experience castless is simply the way that some of us like to thoroughly thrash something through. All that isn't actually required to demonstrate the simple points of doctrine we adhere to.



In response to a post of about 3 paragraphs I was sent links to well over 40 pages of information, I would imagine that 50% of that was irrelevant to what I asked. It gave the appearance of trying to wordsmith me to the point where I grew tired of reading and didn't respond.
John 8: (7-11) When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

#8 Rebel

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:54 AM

In response to a post of about 3 paragraphs I was sent links to well over 40 pages of information, I would imagine that 50% of that was irrelevant to what I asked. It gave the appearance of trying to wordsmith me to the point where I grew tired of reading and didn't respond.

We are all different. I can not cope with a lot of information, so i read as much as i can cope with, skim for what's relevant to my questions.

In case you get tired of reading stuff, ask for a short answer. Different people will answer in different ways. Some give links with lots of stuff to read. Some give links to previous threads, some people answer questions in one or two passages. You then can chose what you are after. If one person gave you links to too much info, you still can ask your questions and get answers from different people.

#9 BDW

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 07:57 AM

What you have experience castless is simply the way that some of us like to thoroughly thrash something through. All that isn't actually required to demonstrate the simple points of doctrine we adhere to.



In response to a post of about 3 paragraphs I was sent links to well over 40 pages of information, I would imagine that 50% of that was irrelevant to what I asked. It gave the appearance of trying to wordsmith me to the point where I grew tired of reading and didn't respond.

It's just the approach of the person that did that. It's what they would probably want if they asked such a question. By all means ask for summaries or shorter answers.
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#10 Evangelion

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:29 AM

In my short time on this sight I have received responses from various administrators pointing out that the reason why other churches that were not Christadelphian went "astray" was due to either errant translations, or in some cases "fraud" apparently committed by early translators.


Correct.

I have found a great deal of the differences in Doctrine between the "apostate" churches and "the Truth" come down to this translation issue.


Incorrect. A great deal of the differenes in doctrine comes down to interpretation, not translation. Differences in translation account for a microscopic proportion of the differences.

I received one answer to a question and it cited details from more than 8 translations of the Bible to make it's point. The problem, the point never got made, it was a debate between several different translations. I am not a Christadelphian and my pastor frequently goes back to the original Greek words to describe things in the Bible. In one explanation of a Christadelphian belief it was more than 4 pages disputing the two schools of thought on Greek grammar and syntax.


Please refer us to the explanation so that we can provide you with a simpler one.

I do not believe that God wanted us to be multi-lingual and a expert in Greek grammar in order to understand his word.


I agree. The Bible can be correctly understood without any use of the Greek and Hebrew languages. However, they are occasionally helpful when clarifying a passage.
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#11 Evangelion

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 08:31 AM

What you have experience castless is simply the way that some of us like to thoroughly thrash something through. All that isn't actually required to demonstrate the simple points of doctrine we adhere to.



In response to a post of about 3 paragraphs I was sent links to well over 40 pages of information, I would imagine that 50% of that was irrelevant to what I asked. It gave the appearance of trying to wordsmith me to the point where I grew tired of reading and didn't respond.


I'll give you the short version in three lines:

(1) the Bible refers to "demons" as false gods
(2) the Bible says that false gods do not exist
(3) therefore, demons do not really exist

Did that help?
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#12 Fortigurn

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 12:26 PM

What you have experience castless is simply the way that some of us like to thoroughly thrash something through. All that isn't actually required to demonstrate the simple points of doctrine we adhere to.



In response to a post of about 3 paragraphs I was sent links to well over 40 pages of information, I would imagine that 50% of that was irrelevant to what I asked. It gave the appearance of trying to wordsmith me to the point where I grew tired of reading and didn't respond.


Two quick points. Firstly, you sound like the sort of person who needs an executive summary. I'm sure someone would be prepared to do that for you. Secondly, the lengthy debates over Greek grammar, syntax, and vocabulary typically take place among standard seminary trained evangelicals. I have over 20 Biblical journals, covering more than 100 years, and there are debates over word meanings and verse interpretations which rage for over 30 years, and produce articles over 40 pages long. There are back and forth debates between individuals which run to entire books.

This is typically unnecessary for the lay reader, who can usually trust a standard modern English Bible. But you need to know that what you refer to as 'word smithing' is actually standard practice among entirely 'orthodox' evangelical theologians. It is in fact considered a necessary part of the process of testing interpretations.
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Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

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#13 Richie

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 01:13 PM

It seems I've asked this question a long time ago but can't remember where or what the answer was.... I'm interested in knowing if "you" (whoever reads this) believes that reading the Bible in English alone could lead someone to the Truth?

I have experience with people reading the Bible in both English and Spanish and met several people who came to the same doctrinal understanding as Christadelphians before they ever heard of us. Even on things like the devil and demons.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#14 Mercia2

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:31 PM

Sometimes we can look/study/research for details while missing the idea.


Buying and selling ideas. We are all merchants. Some good merchants, some evil.
"and will smite every HORSE OF THE PEOPLE with blindness"

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_symbolic_meaning_of_a_horse#ixzz1K0LLUt00

#15 Rebel

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 01:52 AM

Sometimes we can look/study/research for details while missing the idea.


Buying and selling ideas. We are all merchants. Some good merchants, some evil.

I meant we sometimes miss the big picture while looking for details.

#16 Asyncritus

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:53 PM


Sometimes we can look/study/research for details while missing the idea.


Buying and selling ideas. We are all merchants. Some good merchants, some evil.

I meant we sometimes miss the big picture while looking for details.


I think you're perfectly right Rebel.

If 20 'scholars' in the languages produced a particular translation, then

a. I would tend to trust it, and

b. If you used something like the Online Bible, you'd have about 8 versions there, which represent the work of about 8 x 20 = 160 translators.

Nobody needs more than that I suggest

Otherwise, Babel would result!
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