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Does God need Jesus to intercede for us?


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#1 Rebel

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 11:59 AM

Question about BASF number 14

TRUTH TO BE RECEIVED
14. That he is a priest over his own house only, and does not not intercede for the world, or for professors who are abandoned to disobedience. That he makes intercession for his erring brethren, if they confess and forsake their sins.
References
14. LUK 24:51, EPH 1:20, ACT 5:31, 1TI 2:5, HEB 8:1, ACT 15:14, ACT 13:39, HEB 4:14-15, JOH 17:9, HEB 10:26, 1JO 2:1, PRO 28:13


Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

To say God doesn't know what we are going through is to make God not All-knowing, or it is like saying that Creator cannot understand His creation. Surely God doesn't need anybody to tell him what we go through. What's the intercession about? :confused:

#2 Hyperion

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:33 PM

Intercession is 1 party speaking for or against a second party to a 3rd party.

In the case of Christ interceding, it means that he is speaking about us to his father. This does not mean that God is not personally aware of our needs and weaknesses, or that we are unable to speak to God ourselves about our own problems, but we can take comfort in the fact that Christ is also speaking to God for us.

This is part of an overall exhortation to us all not to be selfish in our prayers - we are all supposed to be praying for each other, and not just ourselves. Consider:

1) John 17 is an intercessory prayer - and it is far longer (at least as recorded) then Jesus' own prayers on the night before his crucifixion
2) 1John 5:16 - we are to pray for our brothers and sisters when we see them sinning
3) James 5:14-20 Praying for the sick and sinning in the ecclesia
4) Paul often speaks of praying for the ecclesias

As to the question of whether or not God is all knowing regarding our own sinfulness, the message of Heb 2:14-18 and Heb 4:14-16 would seem to imply that the Lord Jesus in some way does have an experiential knowledge of temptation that God by his very nature cannot have. This is not to say that God is not aware of what he has made, and it certainly does not imply a wrathful God who requires appeasement by his son, after all, God "loved the world and gave his only son" Rather, the picture is of a loving father, and a loving son, both working together for us (1John 2:1) in somewhat different ways.

Edit: Changed triple negative to a double negative.

Edited by Hyperion, 02 March 2010 - 02:09 PM.

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
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#3 Tarkus

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:38 PM

This does not mean that God is not personally unaware of our needs and weaknesses

No no no, never never never use a triple negative :-)

#4 Richie

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:51 PM

It's enormously comforting (well for me anyway) to know that someone who was tempted with the same desires as me is interceding on my behalf. The bond with our Lord when you realize this fact strengthens hugely.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#5 Richie

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 01:52 PM

This does not mean that God is not personally unaware of our needs and weaknesses

No no no, never never never use a triple negative :-)


Isn't there a quintuple negative somewhere in Deuteronomy?
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#6 Hyperion

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 02:08 PM

This does not mean that God is not personally unaware of our needs and weaknesses

No no no, never never never use a triple negative :-)

Must have been reading too much HAW.

Now that I reread my sentence, I'm trying to make sense of it myself. The intention was that God is aware of our weaknesses.

"Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all." (1 Tim 1:15)
"Apply yourself wholly to the text; apply the text wholly to yourself" (Johann Albrecht Bengel)
Christadelphian Books Online | The Agora | Toronto West Christadelphians


#7 Steve D

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 04:04 PM

This does not mean that God is not personally unaware of our needs and weaknesses

No no no, never never never use a triple negative :-)

Must have been reading too much HAW.

Now that I reread my sentence, I'm trying to make sense of it myself. The intention was that God is aware of our weaknesses.


Hebrews 4:25 is a verse (using double negatives) that has been extremely helpful to me in considering how Jesus lives to intercede for me. I like to "read" it in the positive:

"For we have a high priest who is able to sympathize with our weaknesses, we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are -- yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need."

#8 Rebel

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Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:34 PM

In the case of Christ interceding, it means that he is speaking about us to his father. This does not mean that God is not personally aware of our needs and weaknesses,.. but we can take comfort in the fact that Christ is also speaking to God for us.

a loving father, and a loving son, both working together for us

:confused: Thanks, guys. Quotes from Hebrews are useful.
I guess it's like the question "does God need us to tell Him stuff in our prayers". God doesn't have a need, but it's for our benefit.




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