193 replies to this topic

[Abishua]

Just what happened to man after the fall? Did his nature somehow change, and is this why we all sin? Are we somehow corrupted by Adams sin?

[nsr]

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

[mji]

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Just what happened to man after the fall?

Their eyes were opened.
Life got tough.
Temptations multiplied.
Sin became a habit.

[Asyncritus]

The woman saw that the tree was good for food, pleasant to the eyes, and to be desired to make one wise, BEFORE the Transgression.

Every good CDN has in his Bible margin there, a reference to 1 John2.16:

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Since she sinned, then she was drawn away of her own lust and enticed. It was there before, and afterwards it carried on outside the Garden.

Adam, of course is the worst of them all, and because of that, received the heaviest punishment. There is no reason to suppose that he got any better after being driven out.

[Abishua]

If man's nature did change somehow, this new nature must still have been considered sinless until sin was committed correct? Otherwise Jesus would have been considered sinful, seeing as he was in all things made like us.

Thoughts?

[ChickenSoup]

Abishua, if you did a search on this topic, you'll find that there are quite a few LOOOONG threads on this subject, where people go on for pages trying to pinpoint what changed or what didn't change. It has been disgussed thoroughly and in detail. It has gone in circles and in straight lines and every argument imaginable has been presented.

I think it's best to take a simple answer and run...I like the simple way that MJI put it in post #4.

Once they had a taste of sin, it became a habit...like taking drugs I would imagine, once you start you want more even though it's bad for you, it eventually becomes a dangerous habit.

Does this mean that their nature changed? No.

Also, here are some key words you have to be careful of using on this topic: sinful, sin, prone to sin, propensity to sin, sin nature, sin in the flesh, sin-in-the-flesh, sinful flesh, etc. etc. They are simple words/phrases and some of them mean the same thing, but if you don't use them carefully, they can be taken the wrong way and you'll spend about five pages trying to explain what you really mean when others get the wrong idea of what you are trying to say. You have been warned.

Edited by ChickenSoup, 09 October 2009 - 02:19 AM.

[daysha]

Abishua, on Oct 8 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

Just what happened to man after the fall? Did his nature somehow change, and is this why we all sin? Are we somehow corrupted by Adams sin?

I'm still trying to understand this.

What really is worrying me is how essential is it to a person's salvation for them to have the 'correct' view?

[Richie]

Abishua, on Oct 8 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

Just what happened to man after the fall? Did his nature somehow change, and is this why we all sin? Are we somehow corrupted by Adams sin?

Yes and no. No in the fact that it's evident before they sinned they already had the natural instincts of the flesh (lust of the flesh, eyes and pride of life) as we see in Eve's reaction to the words of the serpent. Yes in the fact that sin had now been experienced and so those lusts were inflamed (see mji's post). But that's no different to the experience we all go through. As babies we have all the natural instincts inside us but until we experience things those lusts are kept in check to a certain degrees.

[Richie]

Abishua, on Oct 8 2009, 05:50 PM, said:

If man's nature did change somehow, this new nature must still have been considered sinless until sin was committed correct?

What do you mean? How can a nature be sinless or not sinless? People are sinful or sinless. A nature is just something which describes what is natural to you.

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Otherwise Jesus would have been considered sinful, seeing as he was in all things made like us. Thoughts?

Jesus never sinned so he wasn't sinful even if he had a nature that naturally sinned. He never obeyed it.

[Richie]

dayshakiwi, on Oct 8 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

What really is worrying me is how essential is it to a person's salvation for them to have the 'correct' view?

The correct view is as simple as understanding that you have a nature which, if you obey it, will lead to sin.

[Abishua]

ChickenSoup, on Oct 8 2009, 09:11 PM, said:

Also, here are some key words you have to be careful of using on this topic: sinful, sin, prone to sin, propensity to sin, sin nature, sin in the flesh, sin-in-the-flesh, sinful flesh, etc. etc. They are simple words/phrases and some of them mean the same thing, but if you don't use them carefully, they can be taken the wrong way and you'll spend about five pages trying to explain what you really mean when others get the wrong idea of what you are trying to say. You have been warned.

Yes.....I completely agree

[Abishua]

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 07:43 AM, said:

Abishua, on Oct 8 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

Just what happened to man after the fall? Did his nature somehow change, and is this why we all sin? Are we somehow corrupted by Adams sin?

Yes and no. No in the fact that it's evident before they sinned they already had the natural instincts of the flesh (lust of the flesh, eyes and pride of life) as we see in Eve's reaction to the words of the serpent. Yes in the fact that sin had now been experienced and so those lusts were inflamed (see mji's post). But that's no different to the experience we all go through. As babies we have all the natural instincts inside us but until we experience things those lusts are kept in check to a certain degrees.

Thank you for this excellent response!

[Alethinos]

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

Abishua, on Oct 8 2009, 01:19 PM, said:

Just what happened to man after the fall? Did his nature somehow change, and is this why we all sin? Are we somehow corrupted by Adams sin?

Yes and no. No in the fact that it's evident before they sinned they already had the natural instincts of the flesh (lust of the flesh, eyes and pride of life) as we see in Eve's reaction to the words of the serpent. Yes in the fact that sin had now been experienced and so those lusts were inflamed (see mji's post). But that's no different to the experience we all go through. As babies we have all the natural instincts inside us but until we experience things those lusts are kept in check to a certain degrees.

Hi Richie

Do you think that Adam & Eves Bodies when created could be termed "Vile" ? (Philippians 4:21) ,
or Bodies of "Death" ? (Rom 7:24)
do you think they good say "in me (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing"? (Rom 7:18)

I cannot agree that the Adam & Eves temptation was the same as ours, they had to have an outside tempter before they were tempted to sin, we don't we are born with it.

I am blown away by your suggestion that in babies/children lusts are naturally kept in check you cannot be serious? (This is not meant be an accusation I just cannot see were this idea comes from).

Do you not think a physical change took place when Adam & Eve were cursed by God for there disobedience?

All the Best
Alethinos

[Richie]

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

Do you think that Adam & Eves Bodies when created could be termed "Vile" ? (Philippians 4:21) ,
or Bodies of "Death" ? (Rom 7:24)

I am sure they would have understood those sentiments once they had sinned, yes.

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do you think they good say "in me (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing"? (Rom 7:18)

Once they had sinned, yes. Beforehand it wouldn't have occurred to them.

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I cannot agree that the Adam & Eves temptation was the same as ours, they had to have an outside tempter before they were tempted to sin, we don't we are born with it.

Why can't you agree with it? If they didn't experience what we do then they weren't human beings, Adam is not the typical man and there are no lessons for us from Eden. How do you know they had to have an outside tempter? What if Eve just looked at the tree and licked her lips without any serpent around? What do you mean "we are born with it"? Born with what? With temptation? That doesn't make any sense.

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I am blown away by your suggestion that in babies/children lusts are naturally kept in check you cannot be serious? (This is not meant be an accusation I just cannot see were this idea comes from).

It comes from the fact that a baby is not tempted to do things which it has no experience of. A chocolate bar is just a rectangle until the baby knows what it tastes like.

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Do you not think a physical change took place when Adam & Eve were cursed by God for there disobedience?

I don't see anything in the Bible to suggest such a notion.

[Mercia2]

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What happened in Eden?

The flesh [Eve] under external influence [the serpent] temped the Spirit [Adam] to disobey the Will of God [tree of life] which led to spiritual death/the seperation from the Will of God.

"But we had to be merry and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found." (Luke 15:32) - (The prodigal son was spiritually dead until he repented)

"And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions" (Colossians 2:13)

"For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:6)

Being born again is about restoring Eden/becoming one with the will of God again which "is life",

The same happens to everyone of us and is played out in the Word usually between two brothers, such as Esau [flesh] and Jacob [Spirit] that represent the same in us..

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Did man's nature change because of the fall?

There are two deaths in the Bible, spiritual death and natural death. God said they would die "that day" when they sinned, but they didnt, they lived hundreds of years after that day, so He must have had another death in mind - spiritual death, which happens immediately when we have sinned if we do not repent.

"I protest, brethren, by the boasting in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." (1 Corinthians 15:31)

"And the Law came in that the transgression might increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:20)

The natural man, like Adam hiding in the garden, is isolated from God. When we are born again, the spiritual death is reversed. Before salvation, we are dead (spiritually), but Jesus gives us life. “And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,” (Ephesians 2:1 NKJV). “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins” (Colossians 2:13).

Edited by Mercia2, 09 October 2009 - 07:33 PM.

[daysha]

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Hi Richie, I am blown away by your suggestion that in babies/children lusts are naturally kept in check you cannot be serious? (This is not meant be an accusation I just cannot see were this idea comes from).

All the Best
Alethinos

I was really having a ponder over this too. I think it could be like this, I think it's to do with babies' inability to make a conscious decision to do the right thing.

They, like any baby animal such as kittens & puppies are adorably cute, cuddly and we just absolutely love them to bits but they really can only react similarly to animals do at that age.

They can even seem to be selfserving and even violent at times, and they can only really appreciate their own wants and not empathise with others yet.

However, thanks be to God, our human babies have the capability of growing up into adults who can appreciate & manifest Godliness. Animals can't.

[daysha]

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

dayshakiwi, on Oct 8 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

What really is worrying me is how essential is it to a person's salvation for them to have the 'correct' view?

The correct view is as simple as understanding that you have a nature which, if you obey it, will lead to sin.

Hi Richie for putting it so simply. I feel more confident now! Much appreciated. I'm going to write that in a prominent part of my Bibles.

Edited by dayshakiwi, 09 October 2009 - 10:35 PM.

[Mercia2]

dayshakiwi, on Oct 9 2009, 11:33 PM, said:

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 01:46 PM, said:

dayshakiwi, on Oct 8 2009, 10:09 PM, said:

What really is worrying me is how essential is it to a person's salvation for them to have the 'correct' view?

The correct view is as simple as understanding that you have a nature which, if you obey it, will lead to sin.

Hi Richie for putting it so simply. I feel more confident now! Much appreciated. I'm going to write that in a prominent part of my Bibles.

Yes that just about sums it up.

[Juliashmoolia]

nsr, on Oct 9 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

How is it that Adam was capable of sinning, when he had no knowledge of good and evil and did not know the difference between the two?

[twoofseven]

Adam was an adult. He was told that he could not eat that fruit, and knew that he was disobeying when he chose to do so. A small child needs to learn how to obey, because they are developing critical thinking skills. Adam was an adult, he had to have had the mental capacity to know that he was disobeying. If he didn't, then God would have had no basis to judge him.

[Alethinos]

Hi Richie

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

Do you think that Adam & Eves Bodies when created could be termed "Vile" ? (Philippians 4:21) , or Bodies of "Death" ? (Rom 7:24)

I am sure they would have understood those sentiments once they had sinned, yes.

So you think that God created Adam and Eve with mortal, vile bodies, any scripture in mind?

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

do you think they good say "in me (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing"? (Rom 7:18)

Once they had sinned, yes. Beforehand it wouldn't have occurred to them.

So you think Adam & Eve had the “law of sin” in there “members” before they sinned but just did not notice it? Again any scripture in mind?

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

I cannot agree that the Adam & Eves temptation was the same as ours, they had to have an outside tempter before they were tempted to sin, we don't we are born with it.

Why can't you agree with it? If they didn't experience what we do then they weren't human beings, Adam is not the typical man and there are no lessons for us from Eden. How do you know they had to have an outside tempter? What if Eve just looked at the tree and licked her lips without any serpent around? What do you mean "we are born with it"? Born with what? With temptation? That doesn't make any sense.

“What if Eve just looked at the tree and licked her lips without any serpent around?” But that’s the point Richie she didn’t, she had no “law of sin & death” in her “members”. She was not tempted to disobey the commandment given until the serpent suggested the idea to her. As Paul so profoundly expounds in Rom 7 that is not the case with us, even when we are enlightened and want to do good we have to struggle against “sin that dwelleth in” us.

Surely you are not suggesting that the Devil existed before Adam & Eve sinned?
Surely you would agree that it is the Devil that has the “power of death”, it is the Devil that tempts us, it’s the Devils lusts we have to crucify.
We are born with a nature that needs crucifying that was not the case with Adam & Eve.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

I am blown away by your suggestion that in babies/children lusts are naturally kept in check you cannot be serious? (This is not meant be an accusation I just cannot see were this idea comes from).

It comes from the fact that a baby is not tempted to do things which it has no experience of. A chocolate bar is just a rectangle until the baby knows what it tastes like.

The point is children are not born naturally obedient are they? What scripture do you have in mind that would suggest this, I can think of plenty that suggest otherwise.

Richie, on Oct 9 2009, 08:11 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

Do you not think a physical change took place when Adam & Eve were cursed by God for there disobedience?

I don't see anything in the Bible to suggest such a notion.

As you know I have already posted at length on this subject, so in brief I belief Adam & Eve were created “very good” (Gen 1:31) and were not Mortal (“by Man came death” 1Cor15:21), until sentenced to death (“for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” Gen 2:17). All the curses on God’s creation were physical (Gen 3).
Adams flesh was Adam, Adam was cursed, as Adams descendants we inherit a nature which needs crucifying, this is our “misfortune not our crime” as a wise man once said .

What scriptures lead you to see this matter so differently?

All the Best
Alethinos

[Alethinos]

dayshakiwi, on Oct 9 2009, 11:30 PM, said:

Alethinos, on Oct 9 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Hi Richie, I am blown away by your suggestion that in babies/children lusts are naturally kept in check you cannot be serious? (This is not meant be an accusation I just cannot see were this idea comes from).

All the Best
Alethinos

I was really having a ponder over this too. I think it could be like this, I think it's to do with babies' inability to make a conscious decision to do the right thing.

They, like any baby animal such as kittens & puppies are adorably cute, cuddly and we just absolutely love them to bits but they really can only react similarly to animals do at that age.

They can even seem to be selfserving and even violent at times, and they can only really appreciate their own wants and not empathise with others yet.

However, thanks be to God, our human babies have the capability of growing up into adults who can appreciate & manifest Godliness. Animals can't.

Hi Daysha

Obviously Babies brains are not fully developed and thus they cannot make a conscious decision to do the right thing, neither of course are they responsible in anyway.
But as I said to Richie I don't see anything in scripture (or experience) that would lead us to the conclusion that as they grow there lusts are naturally kept in check in anyway, this logic sounds like we start of good and only learn to be bad.

All the Best
Alethinos

[Mercia2]

Juliashmoolia, on Oct 12 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

nsr, on Oct 9 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

How is it that Adam was capable of sinning, when he had no knowledge of good and evil and did not know the difference between the two?

Sinning in the context of Adam can be summed up as obeying the will of God = life, or disobeying the will of God = death.
It was disobeying Gods will that caused spiritual death.

Edited by Mercia2, 12 October 2009 - 01:11 PM.

[BDW]

Juliashmoolia, on Oct 12 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

nsr, on Oct 9 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

How is it that Adam was capable of sinning, when he had no knowledge of good and evil and did not know the difference between the two?

It has been suggested that Adam knew right and wrong but had no experience of good and evil experiences. Until eating of the fruit he had only ever experienced unmixed good.

[Richie]

Alethinos, on Oct 11 2009, 10:13 PM, said:

So you think that God created Adam and Eve with mortal, vile bodies, any scripture in mind?

Genesis 2:7. By the way "vile" means "lowly", which a body made out of the dust of the ground would have been right from the beginning. Do you think there's anything spiritual about dust? Can a body made out of the dust of the ground last for ever?

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So you think Adam & Eve had the “law of sin” in there “members” before they sinned but just did not notice it? Again any scripture in mind?

They had no conception of sin before they sinned - they didn't know what it was like. But they had the natural instincts common to all creatures of the dust (Genesis 3:6) and so the fruit of the tree, for instance, was appealing. I am not sure what you mean by not noticing the law of sin within their members.

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“What if Eve just looked at the tree and licked her lips without any serpent around?” But that’s the point Richie she didn’t, she had no “law of sin & death” in her “members”.

That's your assumption. You assume that she didn't have the normal senses common to human beings. You're assuming that good smells didn't affect her and draw her to find the origin of the smell. You don't think she was a human being. You don't think there's anything significant about her being made of the same stuff as animals. You don't think she had natural instincts and desires. She was an otherworldly being with no connection to us until somehow something was injected in her after she listened to the serpent. I find that sort of idea unscriptural and preposterous.

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She was not tempted to disobey the commandment given until the serpent suggested the idea to her.

How do you know? It doesn't say they had a picnic in the south-east corner of the garden either - does that mean they didn't have a picnic in the south-east corner? Just because you're not told something doesn't mean it didn't happen or couldn't have happened.

Personally I believe the serpent is in the story to show the clear connection between what Adam and Eve were made out of and what the animals were made out of and that we are like the beasts which perish. And also to introduce the idea of the false teacher. But there's absolutely nothing to suggest Adam and Eve didn't have the same natural desires we all have. Until those desires were inflamed, however, there was no reason for them to go against God's word - they had no experience of sin. Maybe that's what you're talking about?

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As Paul so profoundly expounds in Rom 7 that is not the case with us, even when we are enlightened and want to do good we have to struggle against “sin that dwelleth in” us.

And how do you know the same wasn't with Adam and Eve?

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Surely you are not suggesting that the Devil existed before Adam & Eve sinned?

Well it was there in the form of the serpent if that's what you're talking about. The devil refers to the thinking of the flesh extant in individuals and organizations. The serpent represented that type of thinking and Eve clung to it in Genesis 3:6.

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Surely you would agree that it is the Devil that has the “power of death”, it is the Devil that tempts us, it’s the Devils lusts we have to crucify.

Actually I believe it's stuff that tempts us and it's our own lusts that we have to crucify.

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We are born with a nature that needs crucifying that was not the case with Adam & Eve.

So we're not made of the dust of the ground? We're different? We have some sort of different body than they had? Genesis 3:6 is proof positive of where being made out of the dust of the ground leads to. Where do you think they suddenly had a different body? And when do we go through the same process and suddenly have a different body? The first time a child sins does their body suddenly change somehow?

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Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Ro 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Genesis 3:6 proves they had those affections and lusts.

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The point is children are not born naturally obedient are they? What scripture do you have in mind that would suggest this, I can think of plenty that suggest otherwise.

Of course they're not born naturally obedient and I never suggested such a thing. I said that before they experience sin they have no temptation to do something sinful. That's obvious from observing the behaviour of young children.

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As you know I have already posted at length on this subject, so in brief I belief Adam & Eve were created “very good” (Gen 1:31) and were not Mortal (“by Man came death” 1Cor15:21), until sentenced to death (“for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” Gen 2:17). All the curses on God’s creation were physical (Gen 3).
Adams flesh was Adam, Adam was cursed, as Adams descendants we inherit a nature which needs crucifying, this is our “misfortune not our crime” as a wise man once said .

There's nothing in Genesis 1:31 to suggest it has anything to do with Adam and Eve being incapable of being tempted unless a serpent came along. And how do you know they were not mortal? Jeremiah was sentenced to death in Jeremiah 26 - and the same phrase "you shall surely die" was used. Does that mean Jeremiah wasn't mortal before the sentence was announced?

Genesis 3:19 does not say "and whereas you were immortal (or some state of not being capable of dying) you shall now be mortal". It says "in the sweat of your brow shall you eat bread, until you return unto the ground, for out of it you were taken: for dust you are, and unto dust you shall return." That sounds more like a curse regarding eating bread than a change from mortable to mortal. The bit I emboldened sounds to me like they were being told what the natural result of being made of the dust of the ground was - returning to it.

Were animals capable of dying?

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What scriptures lead you to see this matter so differently?

Genesis 1-3 mainly. And lack of any commentary that would suggest that Adam and Eve were different. And lots of passages that suggest we're meant to learn lessons from Eden.

[Richie]

Alethinos, on Oct 11 2009, 10:25 PM, said:

Obviously Babies brains are not fully developed and thus they cannot make a conscious decision to do the right thing, neither of course are they responsible in anyway.
But as I said to Richie I don't see anything in scripture (or experience) that would lead us to the conclusion that as they grow there lusts are naturally kept in check in anyway, this logic sounds like we start of good and only learn to be bad.

You are misunderstanding me. OK, how about the example of being tempted by sex? Is a baby tempted to commit fornication?

[Juliashmoolia]

BDW, on Oct 12 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

Juliashmoolia, on Oct 12 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

nsr, on Oct 9 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

How is it that Adam was capable of sinning, when he had no knowledge of good and evil and did not know the difference between the two?

It has been suggested that Adam knew right and wrong but had no experience of good and evil experiences. Until eating of the fruit he had only ever experienced unmixed good.

For Adam to know right from wrong would have required him to have a knowledge of good and evil.

PS. It sounds like your rationalizing.

Edited by Juliashmoolia, 12 October 2009 - 11:56 PM.

[ChickenSoup]

Juliashmoolia, on Oct 13 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

BDW, on Oct 12 2009, 11:55 PM, said:

Juliashmoolia, on Oct 12 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

nsr, on Oct 9 2009, 08:15 AM, said:

There are certain things we don't know, because the Bible doesn't tell us.

We know that Adam was created capable of sinning, and capable of being tempted.

How is it that Adam was capable of sinning, when he had no knowledge of good and evil and did not know the difference between the two?

It has been suggested that Adam knew right and wrong but had no experience of good and evil experiences. Until eating of the fruit he had only ever experienced unmixed good.

For Adam to know right from wrong would have required him to have a knowledge of good and evil.

What's the difference? It sounds like you're saying the same thing.

Jesus knew right from wrong, he knew the difference between good and evil however he never did anything bad or evil.

[Mercia2]

Sinning is disobeying the will of God. Adam was told to not do something and he did it. That is what caused spiritual death and the fellowship was broken. He disobeyed the will of God as we all do.