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[Bibleortraditions]

18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

yesterday I had some thoughts on this scripture what is that, frees one from sin.

My thoughts on this

John 8

30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

In this chapter the Lord Jesus said the Truth shall set you free. So i thought they are many faiths which say they have the truth. So what is truth? This is what i think is truth

John 17:17

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

To me the word of God is the Truth, it is the Bible that is Truth. It is the word of God through one can be sanctified, the reception of God's word into our hearts and the complete surrender to his will spoken in his word that one can be free. But i think it requires a special faith in the Lord Jesus. A faith in his word that works by love. Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART "-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,My belief of baptism is symbolical presentation of what the Apostle speaks in Ephesians 5 saying 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. To me baptism is a symbolical presentation of the washing through the word of God which is Truth. My belief is that this journey of true hebrew needs a faith that works by love not by fear. Because as the Apostle John said

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. As love is fullfillment of the law, so a faith works by is not of the word but of flesh. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" As we have from Bro Roberts in his book thatt God free us on the condition or forgives our sins on that condition that we have faith in his son. John 3v16. Faith that is established in love not fear, when this faith works by love it makes one free from the bondage of sin because in the love there is fear perfected love casted out fear. Love gives one strength in heart to overcome the carnal mind and to walk in the newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. dead unto dead works the works of flesh in galatians 5 i think

1 John 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins

1 John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 Corinthians 13 >>
King James Bible

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1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

So Bros and Sistrs what do you think?

Is it a burial in water at baptism that frees from sin or a faith in his word(Lord jesus) that works by Love that makes one free from the slavery of the carnal mind?


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

so what is it?

Thank you

[freckle]

Bibleortraditions, on Sep 14 2009, 06:04 PM, said:

Is it a burial in water at baptism that frees from sin or a faith in his word(Lord jesus) that works by Love that makes one free from the slavery of the carnal mind?

Surely baptism in water is an acknowledgement and expression of our understanding that we are saved by grace through faith.

[Jeremy]

Bibleortraditions, on Sep 14 2009, 06:04 PM, said:

Is it a burial in water at baptism that frees from sin or a faith in his word(Lord jesus) that works by Love that makes one free from the slavery of the carnal mind?

I agree with Freckle. I think it's both. Baptism without faith is just a bath, but faith which doesn't lead to obedience (i.e., obeying the command to be baptised) isn't true faith.

[Bibleortraditions]

Hebrews 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[Bibleortraditions]

This is from a Book by Rick Jones understanding Roman Catholism

What do you think about this?

Baptism Saves

The Catholic church contends that baptism is necessary for salvation:

"The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." Pg. 320, #1257

All Catholics should be aware that the Lord does not agree with this statement. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift that works can never buy. This doctrine was devised by Catholicism:

"The Church does not know of any other means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude..." Pg. 320, #1257
"The faithful are born anew by Baptism..." Pg. 311, #1212

"Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, and are incorporated into the Church..." Pg. 312, #1213


The Bible could not disagree more:

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

Despite Bible verses like these, the Catechism teaches that:

"Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,' an adopted son of God, who has become a 'partaker of the divine nature,' member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit." Pg. 322, #1265
"By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin." Pg. 321, #1263 (See pg. 257, #985)


All these doctrines violate a host of Scriptures. The Bible teaches that [u]only Christ[/u] can forgive our sins, performing a "good work" like baptism will never do it:

"In whom we have redemption through his (Christ's) blood, the forgiveness of sins..." Ephesians 1:7

If baptism is necessary for salvation, would the Apostle Paul have proclaimed:

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." 1 Corinthians 1:17

Or would this same great man of God have stated:

"I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" 1 Corinthians 1:14

John the Baptist's message was:

"Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 3:2

After people repented, then they were...

"... baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins." Matthew 3:6

Listen to what the Ethiopian eunuch asked Philip as they discussed the subject of baptism:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36-37

The Bible teaches that baptism should occur after salvation, not as a requirement for salvation. When the Philippian jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" Paul answered:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house... And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Acts 16:30, 31, 33

First, they believed, then they were baptized. Baptism always follows salvation! Here's another example:

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." Acts 18:8

In Acts chapter two, Peter, the supposed first pope, preached. When he finished:

"... they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41

Again, they were baptized, not to become sons of God, but because they already were sons of God.

When Philip preached to the people of Samaria, first came salvation, then baptism:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12

Soon after in that same passage, Simon, a deceiving sorcerer, followed the same path:

"Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip..." Acts 8:13

The Catechism states:

"All the sacraments are sacred links uniting the faithful with one another and binding them to Jesus Christ, and above all Baptism, the gate by which we enter into the Church." Pg. 248, #950

Just before his death, the thief on the cross next to Jesus put his faith in Jesus Christ. Obviously, he was never baptized, but he still went to paradise. Why? Because salvation is through faith in Christ, not through baptism.

The Catechism also contends that when a person is baptized, it is really Jesus Himself who is doing the baptizing:

"By his (Christ's) power he is present in the sacraments so that when anybody baptizes, it is really Christ himself who baptizes." Pg. 283, #1088

Simply stated, this is another Catholic tradition not found in God's Word.

Another Contradiction

Here is another Catholic doctrine:

"Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." Pg. 324, #1274

But the Bible disagrees again, stating that the eternal destiny of God's children has been sealed with the Holy Spirit:

"... in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Ephesians 1:13
"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Ephesians 4:30


Conclusion

Is baptism necessary for salvation? Catholic tradition and God's Word are at odds. The Catechism says "yes." God's Word says "no."

Who will you believe?


What do you think about this as well?

Edited by Bibleortraditions, 15 September 2009 - 02:16 PM.