4 replies to this topic

[Abishua]

How would you deal with the following claim?

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The pronoun "Ani" (I) is a name of God (Suk. iv. 5). The first verse in Ezekiel ("we-Ani") refers to God (Tos. Suk. 45a). Hillel's epigram "If I [am] here everything is here" (Suk. 53a) is interpreted as referring to God. The divine names are called in the Talmud "Azkarot," or "Adkarata" in the Aramaic form.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...52&letter=N

(1) De 32:39 ¶ See now that I, even I, am he, (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι) and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

(2) Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι)

(3) Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι) before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

(4) Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he אני אני הוא/ εγω ειμι); and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

(5) Isa 43:25 I, even I, am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι) that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

(6) Isa 46:4 And even to your old age I am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι); and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

(7) Isa 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι); I am the first, I also am the last.

(8) Isa 51:12 I, even I, am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι) that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;

(9) Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he (Hebrew: אני אני הוא (ani hu))(LXX: εγω ειμι) that doth speak: behold, it is I.

Edited by Abishua, 25 June 2009 - 03:02 AM.

[Evangelion]

Well, my first response would be "So what?" Then I'd say "Click here".

I personally believe that the name should be interpreted "I WILL BE", but if people want to believe that it means "I AM", I don't see the harm in it.

[Mercia2]

Interesting.

I have never understood why Trinitarian think "I AM" is significant anyway? John already has Jesus saying "these Words I speak are not my own but He who sent me" and Jesus was already doing miracles which man could not do because it was not Jesus doing them, but God through Him/in Him.

So just as the Holy Spirit/God was doing miracles through Jesus so the Holy Spirit was forming thoughts in His mind of what to say and they were Gods Words coming through a mans mouth, Lord Jesus. So why should it matter that He says "I AM" if that was in a part God was speaking through Him just as when God was doing miracles through Him? What is harder for God to do? Make a man perform science defying miracles or speak through a man?

Likewise in Acts we are told do not think of what to speak before the Sandharin as the Holy Spirit/God will impress what to say in your mind. God was doing miracles through Jesus and God was speaking words through Jesus. How can we rationally say that at one time God was doing supernatural miracles through Jesus and yet at another time be amazed that God spoke through Jesus?...but it is also clear at times when it is Jesus speaking like in Gethsemane, the Holy Spirit does not override your own will and personality so does not conflict again free will.

So yes Jesus could have said I AM not meaning Jesus the man was God but that God was speaking through Him. God did not come in the flesh, God came in the Spirit and the Spirit is all that is important. You cannot make three Gods out of that. The Holy Spirit is God omnipresent, "God is Spirit", Jesus the man was full of the Holy Spirit/God which manifested through a man - Jesus. This means the Father (God), the Holy Spirit (God), Jesus (man), yet the Holy Spirit is just another way of saying Gods power omnipresent.

God cannot be a man as the Holy Spirit we are told is omnipresent which would make the Holy Spirit greater than God. So when it says man was created in the image of God in Genesis it is simply impossible that means God looks like us, but rather man was created with Gods character, that is how "image" is also used in the book of Revelation. Therefore if God we are told is Spirit and omnipresent and the only other supernatural Spirit in the Bible that is omnipresent is the Holy Spirit then God is the Holy Spirit as their are not going to be two omnipresent Spirits in the world.

Jesus actually wants us to see His character as a manifestation of God or He would not have said to Philip if you have seen Me you have seen the Father. We are told God sees people in the same way, internally, such as Saul not the external image, but the internal image. That is why I believe the Bible and book of Revelation now see Jesus not as a man but as the Spirit and the context seems to change after He dies.

Edited by Evangelion, 27 June 2009 - 05:20 AM.

[Abishua]

Thank you very much for your responses. You both were very helpful.

[Evangelion]