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Chemarims


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#1 Richie

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 01:17 PM

Has anyone looked into the chemarims mentioned in Zephaniah? Or is it just a name for idolatrous priests (2 Kings 23) and there's really not much more to it?
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#2 Corky

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:45 AM

While ya'll are on this subject, what about the Ugarit texts? It seems that the same Gods exists in their texts as in the Hebrew texts; Yahweh, Ba'al, El etc. IIRC, Yahweh was one of the 70 sons of El.

Anyone here know much about this stuff?

#3 Richie

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:02 AM

Off topic.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#4 Jon D

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:24 AM

Did you get my E-D reply?

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#5 BDW

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:06 AM

Did you get my E-D reply?

I received it on E-D but would you like to post the same material here for the benefit of others who might not?
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#6 IDF

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 09:18 AM

As far as I can tell from a quick skim around various websites is that they were idolatrous priests who dressed all in black.



Otherwise known as the Emo priesthood :thank:
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#7 Jon D

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:26 PM

Jim Cowie's notes on Zephaniah have:

Root word has idea of shriveling, and by a figure to be deeply affected by passion. Occs. Gen.43:30; 1 Kings 3:26; Lam.5:10; Hos.11:8. Has idea of an ascetic, monk or ecclesiastic; an “excited one” who led people in pagan rites. It is suggested their trademark was a black robe.

And:

The prophet Zephaniah prophesied early in the reign of Josiah, Judah’s greatest reformer. Josiah, doubtless encouraged by Zephaniah, commenced the cleansing of idolatry out of Judah, a work completed by Yahweh 40 years later through His servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. The Land, and particularly Jerusalem, was filled with every form of idolatry with an emphasis on the astral worship of Babylon. This was favoured by Manasseh who for 50 years presided over the worst apostasy in Judah’s history – a deliberate and orchestrated campaign of corruption and murder. For this Yahweh eventually sent Manasseh into captivity to Babylon where he was cured of idolatry. In this he was a forerunner of his people who 40 years later were likewise sent to Babylon for the same purpose.

Manasseh endeavored on his return from captivity to undo the effect of 50 years concerted effort to corrupt the worship of Judah. The little progress he made before his death was quickly reversed by Amon his son, and when he was violently removed two years later, Josiah as an 8 year old king ruled a land filled with the relics and doctrines of Babylonian idolatry. Even the faithful prophet Zephaniah did not escape the taint of this deep corruption. His father’s name was Cushi! Who in Judah’s royal line would ever call their son Cush? Only someone deeply affected by the ways of Babylon. Cush was the great original prophet of the Babylonian mysteries. His son Nimrod became by his prowess as a hunter the first god-king of the kingdom of men based in Babel (or Babylon) and then in Assyria. Nimrod and his wife Semiramis established a higher order of priests for the god Janus, god of doors and hinges, who wore red. From these ultimately developed the Roman Catholic cardinals (Latin - Cardo signifying hinge). The lower order of priests who tended the sacrificial fires wore black robes. These emerged later in Judah as the Chemarims (Zeph.1:4) and are duplicated in the black robed priests of the Catholic Church of today.


I think he might mention it is this talk.

Edited by Elimelech, 27 April 2009 - 12:27 PM.

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#8 Richie

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 01:20 PM

Thanks, and thanks for it on e-d too. I actually have the transcript of Jim's talks on Zephaniah that I had forgotten about, although half the time I haven't a clue what direction he's going in. :thank:
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#9 Evangelion

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 01:51 PM

While ya'll are on this subject, what about the Ugarit texts? It seems that the same Gods exists in their texts as in the Hebrew texts; Yahweh, Ba'al, El etc. IIRC, Yahweh was one of the 70 sons of El.

Anyone here know much about this stuff?


"El" and "Ba'al" are generic words for "god/lord" that were used by a variety of semitic peoples; they are not proper names as such.

As for Yahweh being one of the sons of Ēl (also known as "Il" and "Tru Ēl")...


In the episode of the "Palace of Baal", the god Baal/Hadad invites the "70 sons of Athirat" to a feast in his new palace. Presumably these sons have been fathered on Athirat by Ēl in following passages they seem be the gods (ilm) in general or at least a large portion of them.

The only sons of Ēl named individually in the Ugaritic texts are Yamm ("Sea"), Mot ("Death"), and Ashtar, who may be the chief and leader of most of the sons of Ēl. Baal/Hadad is a few times called Ēl's son rather than the son of Dagan as he is normally called, probably because Ēl is in the position of a clan-father to all the gods.


Wiki.

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#10 Corky

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:04 PM

Off topic.


Really? I thought maybe the idolatrous priests (chemarims?) might be of the Ugarit persuasion. Oh well, if it's off topic, it's off topic.

#11 Corky

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 08:17 PM

While ya'll are on this subject, what about the Ugarit texts? It seems that the same Gods exists in their texts as in the Hebrew texts; Yahweh, Ba'al, El etc. IIRC, Yahweh was one of the 70 sons of El.

Anyone here know much about this stuff?


"El" and "Ba'al" are generic words for "god/lord" that were used by a variety of semitic peoples; they are not proper names as such.

As for Yahweh being one of the sons of Ēl (also known as "Il" and "Tru 'Ēl")...


In the episode of the "Palace of Ba'al", the god Ba'al/Hadad invites the "70 sons of Athirat" to a feast in his new palace. Presumably these sons have been fathered on Athirat by Ēl in following passages they seem be the gods ('ilm) in general or at least a large portion of them.

The only sons of Ēl named individually in the Ugaritic texts are Yamm ("Sea"), Mot ("Death"), and Ashtar, who may be the chief and leader of most of the sons of Ēl. Ba'al/Hadad is a few times called Ēl's son rather than the son of Dagan as he is normally called, probably because Ēl is in the position of a clan-father to all the gods.


Wiki.

:thank:


Thanks Evangelion, here is a very interesting article from the Quartz Hill School of Theology about the Ugarit text and it's relationship to the Old Testament.

#12 Jon D

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:09 PM

Thanks, and thanks for it on e-d too. I actually have the transcript of Jim's talks on Zephaniah that I had forgotten about, although half the time I haven't a clue what direction he's going in. :thank:

I'm glad it's not just me.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus





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