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The Mosaic Law


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#211 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 04:44 PM

Even killing all the Caananites?


The death penalty is also cancelled under Christ.

#212 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:31 PM

How do you know that?

:tarkus:

Edited by nsr, 04 August 2008 - 05:32 PM.

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#213 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:33 PM

How do you know that?

:tarkus:


Paul said that you're dead under the Law, so it quite literally means you would be dead (i.e. executed), under the Law, but under the grace of God you don't suffer from the death penalty. Well, that's how I interpret it anyway.

#214 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:40 PM

What do you make of Romans 13:9-10?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#215 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 05:46 PM

What do you make of Romans 13:9-10?


I see it as saying that some commandments come under 'love your neighbour', while other laws of the Law of God come under 'love your God'.

#216 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 06:27 PM

Rom 13:9-10
For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law


Can you explain how you arrive at that conclusion from Romans 13:9-10? :tarkus:
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#217 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 06:51 PM

Rom 13:9-10
For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law


Can you explain how you arrive at that conclusion from Romans 13:9-10? :tarkus:


Well Jesus said that the entire Law could be summed up in two Laws: Love your neighbour, which is what Romans 13:9-10 is referring to, and love your God, which is what the Sabbath Laws include.

#218 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:05 PM

Indeed, but you had to go outside of Rom 13:9-10 to get that. I was asking what specifically you got from that verse. The point of course being that Paul says the law is fulfilled by loving your neighbour, without needing to slavishly follow a list of commands.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#219 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:07 PM

Indeed, but you had to go outside of Rom 13:9-10 to get that. I was asking what specifically you got from that verse. The point of course being that Paul says the law is fulfilled by loving your neighbour, without needing to slavishly follow a list of commands.


Well, we shouldn't keep to the Law of God so strictly that it interferes with our daily lives, but we will have to agree to disagree. When I have the time I will address the points about the writings of Paul of Tarsus being the basis for the cancelling of the Law of God, which is not true.

#220 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:09 PM

Sure, will look forward to reading your thoughts :tarkus:

In practical terms though, what difference does it make? Are there commandments of God which I am not following but should be? What will the outcome be, if any, of my failure to do this?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#221 Danage

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:12 PM

Sure, will look forward to reading your thoughts :tarkus:

In practical terms though, what difference does it make? Are there commandments of God which I am not following but should be? What will the outcome be, if any, of my failure to do this?


All will see the salvation of Christ. Since I believe you have not seen it in it's fullest, or if you did see it you rejected it because the Holy Spirit told you to reject it, then you will get a chance to see the full salvation of Christ, and accept his offer, at the second resurrection.

#222 nsr

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 07:17 PM

OK thanks - so what is an example of a law I should be following but might not be? Or what is an example of a law most Christians ignore but should not?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#223 Bryce

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Posted 04 August 2008 - 08:59 PM

All will see the salvation of Christ. Since I believe you have not seen it in it's fullest, or if you did see it you rejected it because the Holy Spirit told you to reject it, then you will get a chance to see the full salvation of Christ, and accept his offer, at the second resurrection.


Why would the Holy Spirit tell someone to reject salvation??? :tarkus:

Edited by Bryce, 04 August 2008 - 09:00 PM.

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#224 Danage

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 09:51 PM

All will see the salvation of Christ. Since I believe you have not seen it in it's fullest, or if you did see it you rejected it because the Holy Spirit told you to reject it, then you will get a chance to see the full salvation of Christ, and accept his offer, at the second resurrection.


Why would the Holy Spirit tell someone to reject salvation??? :tarkus:


If God the Father does not wish for that person to be called into the true church He will have His Holy Spirit tell them that it is a false church. Only a few are chosen in this age.

Edited by Danage, 05 August 2008 - 09:52 PM.


#225 nsr

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Posted 05 August 2008 - 10:13 PM

Does the Bible say that?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#226 Danage

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:12 PM

Does the Bible say that?


Not necessarily.

I do know that the Church is meant to be very small, miniscule compared to the big churches of today, and that only a select few are a part of them.

#227 Jeremy

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:15 PM

Why would the Holy Spirit tell someone to reject salvation??? :tarkus:

If God the Father does not wish for that person to be called into the true church He will have His Holy Spirit tell them that it is a false church. Only a few are chosen in this age.

Is that the same as lying to them?
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#228 Danage

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 10:31 PM

Why would the Holy Spirit tell someone to reject salvation??? :tarkus:

If God the Father does not wish for that person to be called into the true church He will have His Holy Spirit tell them that it is a false church. Only a few are chosen in this age.

Is that the same as lying to them?


Some are not worthy, some are not ready. All shall eventually see the salvation of Christ. I believe I have seen the salvation of Christ and I now believe in every last doctrine of the true church (in my opinion and by the influence of the Holy Spirit).

#229 ChickenSoup

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Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:38 PM

Does the Bible say that?


Not necessarily.

I do know that the Church is meant to be very small, miniscule compared to the big churches of today, and that only a select few are a part of them.

If you can't find that in scripture then there's no reason to believe it.

#230 Danage

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 07:30 PM

Does the Bible say that?


Not necessarily.

I do know that the Church is meant to be very small, miniscule compared to the big churches of today, and that only a select few are a part of them.

If you can't find that in scripture then there's no reason to believe it.


The true church has to be small because if it were large then the salvation of Christ would be known throughout the world and the end would come, but it has not. The restored Gospel of the Kingdom of God has not been preached to the world, to all nations. When the Gospel is preached to all nations and kindred and peoples then, and only then, will the end come. You can't deny that it says that the Gospel must be preached to the world, because it is in the Bible (although I cannot remember where).

#231 Richie

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 08:52 PM

Matthew 24, but it's referring to AD 70 which has past.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#232 Rebel

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 09:15 PM

Danage knows full well Christadelphians disagree. He might get impression that we are all against him. It is hard for him because he doesn't have anybody helping him on this forum to explain his point of view. If you went to JW's (or any other) forum, how would you feel there by yourself? Please, if possible be nice to him, don't scare him away. Because you know he gets upset very easily. Treat him like your own friend, if possible. Be gentle please. I think it would be better. Please.

Glad to see you back Danage :(

Edited by Rebel, 16 August 2008 - 10:30 PM.


#233 Danage

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 09:27 PM

Matthew 24, but it's referring to AD 70 which has past.


I do not see how the chapter relates to the church, although I should re-read it to find out for myself.

Danage knows full well Christadelphians disagree. He might get impression that we are all against him. It is hard for him because he doesn't have anybody helping him on this forum to explain his point of view.


True.

If you went to JW's (or any other forum) forum, how would you feel there by yourself? Please, if possible be nice to him, don't scare him away. Because you know he gets upset very easily. Treat him like your own friend, if possible. Be gentle please. I think it would be better. Please.

Glad to see you back Danage :(


I get upset when no-one will see my point of view, or even consider it, and when I present evidence it isn't seen as evidence, but just a faulty argument. I get upset rather easily partly because of my illness as well, but God's helping me recover. If it weren't for my faith in God I would probably be dead.(i.e. I would have committed suicide), but it never came to that, knowing that God did not wish this to be so.

To be honest my illness I don't actually see as an illness but a channel to God. I only became a Christian once again (albeit a Biblical Unitarian Christian) through my psychosis, as my son told me to become a Biblical Unitarian Christian, but also through studying the Bible did I come to the understanding I have on several key points of doctrine.

Thank you for your post Rebel, it is much appreciated.

#234 ChiefMuzz

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Posted 08 August 2008 - 10:32 PM

Does the Bible say that?


Not necessarily.

I do know that the Church is meant to be very small, miniscule compared to the big churches of today, and that only a select few are a part of them.


Danage,

Sorry to jump into this so late and out of nowhere but what you said made me want to comment. I agree with you that very often throughout history God's/Christ' church was very small and indeed I believe that was God's will. However do you believe this is because it is only open to a select few or because only a select few will accept it readily? thanks

jrn

#235 composer

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 12:17 AM

We must be careful not to proclaim " We are the smallest Church therefore we are the True Church " because if that were the case it may come to the stage that this Church might have to eject some members if its numbers swelled or even grew any greater than its nearest rival, in order for it to remain the smallest. A ' head count ' would also have to be monitored at all times throughout the World, to ensure the numbers were kept as the smallest Church of all.

It is a pity Danage can't get any other supporters for his cause to join him here, though I have tried to get Wade Cox to come but he declined.

I also tried to tackle Mr. Wade Cox on his own territory but he banned me for daring to expose his spurious doctrine.

Keep asking questions Danage and comparing with what you have been shown by others up until now and stay calm please, we are only here to help you and uplift you to a clear understanding. (God willing?)

Cheers!

#236 Danage

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 09:44 PM

Danage,

Sorry to jump into this so late and out of nowhere but what you said made me want to comment. I agree with you that very often throughout history God's/Christ' church was very small and indeed I believe that was God's will. However do you believe this is because it is only open to a select few or because only a select few will accept it readily? thanks

jrn


Only those who have been called and accept the restored Gospel shall become part of the true church.

We must be careful not to proclaim " We are the smallest Church therefore we are the True Church " because if that were the case it may come to the stage that this Church might have to eject some members if its numbers swelled or even grew any greater than its nearest rival, in order for it to remain the smallest. A ' head count ' would also have to be monitored at all times throughout the World, to ensure the numbers were kept as the smallest Church of all.


I didn't say that the true church would be the smallest, only that it would be small throughout the world, probably only bringing in up to 100, 000 throughout the world within ten years.

It is a pity Danage can't get any other supporters for his cause to join him here, though I have tried to get Wade Cox to come but he declined.

I also tried to tackle Mr. Wade Cox on his own territory but he banned me for daring to expose his spurious doctrine.


Mr. Cox gave his reasons, and I do not see his doctrine on the Devil being spurious. He banned you for reasons other than the ones you give. One thing I might note is that on CCG's (Christian Churches of God's) forum and the ACTS (Arian Catholic Theological Society) forum you have taunted the administrators to ban you. On the ACTS Forum you attacked me again and again, calling my comments silly, hilarious etc. Your whole manner was terrible, especially against myself. You couldn't even leave the Muslims alone. You attacked anyone who didn't agree with you using prejudiced and racist remarks. You were banned by Mr. Cox because of what you did on other forums, and you have been demoted to Guest status on the ACTS forum (all your posts are monitored, and then, if deemed acceptable, released), simply because banning you will cause you to cry that they martyred you there as well.

Keep asking questions Danage and comparing with what you have been shown by others up until now and stay calm please, we are only here to help you and uplift you to a clear understanding. (God willing?)

Cheers!


You were not at all nice to me on the ACTS Forum. You attacked me and my friends there a lot and wouldn't leave me alone. Personally I felt more ill having to deal with your attacks. All I ask is that you don't repeat yourself here, or there for that matter.

Edited by Danage, 09 August 2008 - 09:50 PM.


#237 ChiefMuzz

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Posted 09 August 2008 - 10:12 PM

My curiosity continues...

Only those who have been called and accept the restored Gospel shall become part of the true church.



You use the phrase restored gospel. I find that extremely interesting as to why you use that phrase. Do you believe in an apostasy? Do you believe in a restoration?

Looking forward to your comments

jrn

#238 composer

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 01:49 AM

All I did Danage was attack the false teachings of you and Mr Wade Cox and others like you that didn't want to admit defeat, nor can they legitimately refute me, so their dishonest alternative is to restrain the Truth those like me try to bring, by foul means not fair such as banning us; with more false claims and pathetic excuses such as those you and others like you falsely accused me and others of and still try to do.

Take care!

#239 Danage

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Posted 10 August 2008 - 01:05 PM

My curiosity continues...

Only those who have been called and accept the restored Gospel shall become part of the true church.



You use the phrase restored gospel. I find that extremely interesting as to why you use that phrase. Do you believe in an apostasy? Do you believe in a restoration?

Looking forward to your comments

jrn


There is a great apostasy of the Earth. The church entered apostasy after the church of Smyrna ended. When the church entered into the Philadelphian age the Gospel was restored.

Re: Composer - your words were very hurtful on the Arian Catholic Forums. Since you are not using those words here I forgive you for what you did and would wish to have a fresh start, but I ask that you don't call my beliefs polytheism, silly etc. Toda raba.

#240 ChiefMuzz

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Posted 11 August 2008 - 12:06 AM

My curiosity continues...

Only those who have been called and accept the restored Gospel shall become part of the true church.



You use the phrase restored gospel. I find that extremely interesting as to why you use that phrase. Do you believe in an apostasy? Do you believe in a restoration?

Looking forward to your comments

jrn


There is a great apostasy of the Earth. The church entered apostasy after the church of Smyrna ended. When the church entered into the Philadelphian age the Gospel was restored.

Re: Composer - your words were very hurtful on the Arian Catholic Forums. Since you are not using those words here I forgive you for what you did and would wish to have a fresh start, but I ask that you don't call my beliefs polytheism, silly etc. Toda raba.


Wow! I've never actually heard someone outside of my church with an understanding like that. What time period do you believe the apostasy of smyrna and the restoration of philadelphia to be? Also, how did you come to this conclusion scripturally.

very interesting....

jrn




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