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Christians cheated the word of god.


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#1 laijorad

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 10:11 AM

Matthew 10

1-Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

2-Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3- Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;

4-Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

5-These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;

6-but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Here Jesus is instructing his disciples not to preach the word of God to the Gentiles, And the Samaritans.

but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Are you the last sheep of Israel?

Bible

We find Every affidavit begins:" The Gospel according to St. Matthew, the Gospel according to St. Mark, the Gospel according to St. Luke, the Gospel according to St. John."

According=accorder

They are not the writers of the book. Someone else is cheating from the disciples. And as we all know when we cheat what happens.. Lets say you are in a class room taking a Test which you haven't been prepared for. what do you do? You cheat from the guy next to you. now if someone is cheating his like stealing, He must do it without getting cut, So you see him nervous. the result` from cheating ,will be that you failed the Test. Because your cheated ,and you cheated from the Jews ,when the Jews have failed the Test!

28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Did he come?

Or is he coming?

And if he came ,Then where is his kingdom?

And if he is coming then where are There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death,?

Did they die or they still alive, And if so, Then where?

24-Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

What Jesus (pbuh) is saying here .Is that if any man will come after me. (after his gone) those who will wish to follow his way. Let him deny himself .To someone deny himself he must drop all what he believes in, Or holds as sacred .It's like saying don't lesson to your self. And take up his cross. It can only mean lift up, Take off your cross. And follow me. Follow my way.

It's very clear in this verse that Jesus meant you Christians .That came after him. You are the one wearing the cross. His telling you take off your cross, The false belief, And follow me, Follow my right way.


Corinthians 1

21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
my God even the verse number 21

We believe that God did reveal to his prophet Jesus (pbuh) word from him called the Injeel as a completion to the Torah which he revealed to his prophet Moses (pbuh). The Bible you call today the book of God. We belief it's a book that talks about God. It's more like a study about Christianity, some kind of researches. In these so called books of God ,we do find some of the words of God and some of Jesus (pbuh)


25- For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: (vice versa ) and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


This verse .25 Jesus is explaining why they must deny there self. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it. You Christians` say that salvation is believing that Jesus died for the sin of man on the cross. Jesus is simply saying your salvation is wrong .Give it up for me .Lose this false salvation, And then you see the true salvation,...............And I tell you by the time you drop this outrages salvation. The only true salvation you'll see is Islam. For truly this is the only barrier that stands` between you and Islam.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?100% right.





Islam (submission) is the true religion of God pure like it was just revealed. We have submit to God ,And so did the heavens and the earth. Cant you see that everything in the world has submit to God Sea ,Wind ,Trees. Do they have there own well? no. there well is submit to the well of god.

long time ago a great conflict arose between great Muslim scholars on the subject of (If the Qua ran had a life of it's own) That's how great Quran is looked at .The Arabs were the best at words. They knew how to use words. So God sent them their miracles. Just like Jesus (pbuh) He was giving miracles for his time the age of Medicine (the power to heal), And what he gave Moses at the age of Sorcery. Read the Quran, Read before its too late.




John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Mark chapter 8:18. Having eyes, see you not? And having ears, hear you not? Neither do you remember? They are like the dead. They can't see ,Can't hear, Can't remember. Their spiritually dead.
See, You have to work for your salvation, We humans are sinful by nature....Well God punish us for our sins yeah if we don't repent. But if you just raise your hands to the merciful great God, And repent from your sins , God well forgive your sins even if they filled the skies. If you had a dept ,And you knew a very good generous man. So ,you went and begged for his help on your kneels, Will not this man then help you ?So what have you to say about the most merciful most generous God, What you believe his going to tell you go to Jesus. The devil has deceived you...He made you believe that Jesus died for your sin, That way you will never turn to God and repent for your sins.


Qur'an 4:155-159 Surah An-Nisaa (The Women)
(They have incurred divine displeasure): in that they broke their Covenant: that they rejected the Signs of Allah; that they slew the Messengers in defiance of right; that they said "Our hearts are the wrappings (which preserve Allah's Word; we need no more)"; nay Allah hath set the seal on their hearts for their blasphemy and little is it they believe.
That they rejected faith: that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge.
That they said (in boast) "We killed Christ (Maseeh) Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah"; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise.
And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.


Corinthians 1:20-21
20-Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
21-For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
My God even the verses number 20 and 21( 20th century, And 21st century) .can it be that this verse is calling the wise man, and the scholar, And the philosopher of this age. Sure you will not be able to read the verse right, If you don't fix the commas and put full stops, And question marks. 21-For since in the wisdom of God. The world through its wisdom did not know him. God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe ?!
Qur'an 43:57-67 Surah Az-Zukhruf (Gold Adornments)
When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example behold thy people raise a clamor thereat (in ridicule)!
And they say " Are Our gods best or He?" This they set forth to thee only by way of disputation: yea they are a contentious people.
He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favor to him and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.
And if it were Our Will We could make angels from amongst you succeeding each other on the earth.
And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour) but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.
When Jesus came with Clear Signs he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.
"For Allah; He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him: this is a Straight Way."
But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement: then woe to the wrongdoers from the Penalty of a Grievous Day!
Do they only wait for the Hour that it should come on them all of a sudden while they perceive not?
Friends on that Day will be foes one to another except the Righteous.

Edited by laijorad, 03 March 2008 - 05:58 AM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#2 R2D2

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 12:18 PM

Moved this to the Islam section, as it is a post promoting Islam.

Laijorad, please in future can you use neutral font for sizing, colours and styles as many readers find it annoying and distracting.

Since you are new, please take some time to read through the guidelines of our forum, which can be found here.
"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15

#3 laijorad

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 01:59 PM

When you yourself start using correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, then I might start to take this seriously.



Hay! don`t make fun of my English this is not the subject.If you want I well write to you in Arabic and Greek.
Be nice!And stop trying to be smart at English grammar. I`m sure you were first at your class in grammar,good for you. But how good were you in religion !


Mod Edit: Removed bolding of entire posted response.

Edited by TwoPutt, 01 December 2007 - 02:23 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#4 laijorad

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 03:52 PM

When you yourself start using correct grammar, spelling and punctuation, then I might start to take this seriously.



Hay! don`t make fun of my English this is not the subject.If you want I well write to you in Arabic and Greek.
Be nice!And stop trying to be smart at English grammar. I`m sure you were first at your class in grammar,good for you. But how good were you in religion !


Mod Edit: Removed bolding of entire posted response.

Thats fair enough if English isn't your first language. It would help if you could run what you type through a spell checker though.

Back to the subject, have you any comments about my reply to you?


You well have my comments about your reply tomorrow .I must first read more about the new thoughts,and updates you have recently took out or put into the believes of Christianity lest I make reckoning mistake .I have to know,search ,and examine so if you could help me in what has changed in the faith of Christianity? What happened to the trinity the begotten son of God,the cross, you still keep the cross right,and the resurrection ?

I`m not fast like you in my replies.You must be patient.....Its seems that some new movements are taking place in Christianity...Allah ` Akbar and Allah is with you.

Edited by laijorad, 11 January 2008 - 09:51 AM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#5 R2D2

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 11:31 PM

You well have my comments about your reply tomorrow .I must first read more about the new thoughts,and updates you have recently took out or put into the believes of Christianity lest I make a reckoning I have to know,search ,and examine so if you could help me in what has changed in the faith of Christianity? What happened to the trinity the begotten son of God,the cross, you still keep the cross right,and the resurrection ?


Christadelphians have never believed in the trinity, so there hasn't been any changes in our beliefs. We are at odds with most mainstream Christians on that though. However, we believe that the trinity was never taught in the Bible, so it's really an old first century belief.

Thank you for changing your fonts, it makes your posts much easier to read!

Edited by R2D2, 02 December 2007 - 07:10 AM.

"For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin." Heb 4:15

#6 laijorad

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:07 PM

Are there good answers to alleged Bible contradictions?

If a person reads the Bible, without being on a mission to find contradictions, he/she will find the Bible to be understandable, consistent, and in harmony. Admittedly, yes, there are some passages that are difficult to explain. Yes, there are some passages of Scripture that seem to contradict other passages of Scripture. Why is this? The Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. The Bible covers many different topics. The literature in the Bible is in different forms, i.e. poetry, history, teaching, prophecy. Each writer of a book of the Bible wrote their book(s) to a different audience, from a different perspective, and for a different purpose. As a result of all of these facts, we should expect some differences!

However, a difference is not the same thing as a contradiction. It is only a contradiction if there is conclusively no possible answer for how the verses or passages can be in agreement. Even if the answer has not yet been discovered, that does not mean an answer does not exist. Many skeptics and critics of the Bible have promoted a supposed contradiction in the Bible in relation to history or geography only to later be proven wrong once further archaeological evidence is discovered.source



40 different authors not translators .Imagen..............And you call it the book of god. The god of the whole perfect universe .If God had put the foundations, theory's,and laws of the universe.In the same way he put them in the bible.Then we going to be living in a pandemonium World.

A God who made all these wonderful
perfect world,and he made his justice laws over all his creation he made all this,But when it came to a book you claim it was revealed from him.A religion book! Do you understand the concept of a book revealed from God ,First the book must say only the truth.God made the world and the humans,and then what happens .......God must send a message to man a prophet to explain the concept of god the concept of worshiping and obeying him .Now a book like the bible full of errors well take you no where.Ask your self if the revelation sent by god to Jesus was corrupted by some kind of a group .Why would god leave Christianity without aid ,has God forsaken Christianity.Why for 2000 years God never solved your deferences,Christianity is divided into many groups each group claims his right.Think about it...... God sends his true word to the prophet one word one meaning one goal.After a while the word becomes a 100 word and the one meaning to 100 meaning.All what you people are doing is trying to prove it to us, not for once have you tried proving it to your selves.You know why because you have chosen your team you are 100% with your team your team says its right then it must be right .You are like a soldier sent to fight in a war ,he dose not know what is the war about his just fighting next to his co mates.


Edited by laijorad, 09 June 2008 - 04:56 AM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#7 laijorad

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 10:17 AM

40 different authors not translators .Imagen..............And you call it the book of god. The god of the whole perfect universe .If God had put the foundations, theory's,and laws of the universe.In the same way he put them in the bible.Then we going to living in a pandemonium World.

A God who made all these wonderful
[/color][/size]perfect world,and he made his justice laws over all his creation he made all this,But when it came to a book you claim it was revealed from him.A religion book! Do you understand the concept of a book revealed from God ,First the book must say only the truth.God made the world and the humans,and then what happens .......God must send a message to man a prophet to explain the concept of god the concept of worshiping and obeying him .Now a book like the bible full of errors well take you no where.Ask your self if the revelation sent by god to Jesus was corrupted by some kind of a group .Why would god leave Christianity without aid ,has God forsaken Christianity.Why for 2000 years God never solved your deferences,Christianity is divided into many groups each group claims his right.Think about it...... God sends his true word to the prophet one word one meaning one goal.After a while the word becomes a 100 word and the one meaning to 100 meaning.All what you people are doing is trying to prove it to us, not for once have you tried proving it to your selves.You know why because you have chosen your team you are 100% with your team your team says its right then it must be right .You are like a soldier sent to fight in a war ,he dose not know what is the war about his just fighting next to his co mates.

Well, first of all, there arent any errors in the Bible. Did you have any potentially contradictory or inaccurate passages in mind?

And secondly, most people here will have read the Bible from cover to cover more than once, some maybe as many as 50 times. So the 'soldier in the army' analogy doesnt work, because the people here do not just have blind faith, we read our Bibles daily and are constantly reviewing the evidence for the word of God being accurate, as well as of course using the book to help us guide our lives.

And yes, there may well be differences between different denominations of Christianity, but there are in Islam as well, i.e. Shia and Sunni Muslims. And in Islam there are those who are ultra orthodox and those who are much more liberal. There are those who believe it is ok to kill in the name of Allah, but other scholars disagree and believe and preach that Islam is a religion of peace and will condemn those who teach it is ok to kill apostates and people of other religions.

As far as Christadelphians and Christianity goes though, Christadelphians have not invented any new doctrines, nor have they agreed with doctrines invented by other denominations of Christianity e.g. Catholic beliefs regarding the sinlessness of the virgin Mary who they call 'the Mother of God' (invented ~4th century), the trinity (invented ~3rd-5th century, the immortality of the soul (imported from other religions such as greek mysticism). Christadelphians have not blindly accepted these invented doctrines, they have rejected them on the basis that they are invented and contradict the Bible. Christadelphians remove these beliefs in favour of the Bible-based beliefs that were held by first century Christians, i.e. those who were actually alive at the time or shortly after the time of Christ, before these apostate beliefs were ever invented, before the divisions ever occurred. If Christadelphians had had blind faith and not bothered to look at the evidence for their beliefs and just 'fought as a soldier in a team' and believed blindly what the priest told them, then they would never have existed in the first place and would probably still be Catholics or Anglicans or Methodists or whatever. But here we are.


I don't understand why you follow a book written by hearsay,Full of errors ,And you leave the Quran ,read the Quran.

You are blind.....Look at your written invented .
Invented by who God....no by men like you and me .They can make mistakes.You must find a solid foundation.You can depend on .
The Bible is not the word of God you too know that very well contradiction or no contradiction.This cant be the word of God.This is not god talking this is someone else is telling the stories,can't you read English.The Quran is the word of God word by word.A man knows the word of God when he sees one.Most of you have read it more then fifty times, you can read it 1000 times ,and still it won't be god word.


Ask, Seek, Knock
Matthew 7 (King James Version)</h3> 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?





A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Find these good trees

Edited by laijorad, 06 December 2007 - 09:28 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#8 Jeremy

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:30 PM

This cant be the word of God.This is not god talking this is someone else reading the stories,can't you read English.The Quran is the word of God word by word.

I think what laijorad might mean is that the words of the Bible are not always quoting direct speech from God - which, I agree, anyone can see.

1. laijorad, is that what you mean?

2. If so, why is this important to you, given that this is no different from the Koran?

(Trying to understand exactly what your criticism is.)
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#9 laijorad

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 01:23 PM

This cant be the word of God.This is not god talking this is someone else reading the stories,can't you read English.The Quran is the word of God word by word.

I think what laijorad might mean is that the words of the Bible are not always quoting direct speech from God - which, I agree, anyone can see.

1. laijorad, is that what you mean?

2. If so, why is this important to you, given that this is no different from the Koran?

(Trying to understand exactly what your criticism is.)


Yeah thank you.......At last thats what I'm saying not all of God.Thank you again.
The Quran is not like the bible.The words are of god 100%.....See what differences the Muslim from Christianity is that you left the book of God in the hands of the church for thousands of years.
But we muslim we had the Quran just in our hands,but also in our heart we memorized it the Quran,Word for word ,Because we had to pray five times a day reciting the Quran since it was first revealed....everyday five times.How can someone change the Quran.Plus theres something else .People of science have found out that the Quran is put together in codes.Numbers that are connected like a chine.Plus if the Quran was changed it would have lost its miracle power,when any Arab recites the Quran theres a strange powerful and a beautiful melody,Allah tells us that the Quran is souhuf Ibrahim(pbuh)and the Torah of moses(pbuh) ,And the zabour of dived(pbuh) and ,the an jell of Jesus(pbuh).All together.


Finding the Lost Bible
Posted Image


From the beginning of human life on this earth mankind has disobeyed Godís laws and rebelled against His authority. The first five books of the Bible give us an account of this activity and details Godís direct dealing with the nation of Israel.Source



So the Quran was in the hand and heart of the people.
The bible was in the hands of the church.Plus you know And I know that the real bible is lost.

Edited by laijorad, 07 December 2007 - 01:32 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#10 SoaringEagle

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 09:00 PM

Take out all that the Koran borrowed from the bible and you have very little to read in comparison to the whole book.

#11 Jeremy

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Posted 07 January 2008 - 11:57 AM


I think what laijorad might mean is that the words of the Bible are not always quoting direct speech from God - which, I agree, anyone can see.

1. laijorad, is that what you mean?

2. If so, why is this important to you, given that this is no different from the Koran?

(Trying to understand exactly what your criticism is.)


Yeah thank you.......At last thats what I'm saying not all of God.Thank you again.
The Quran is not like the bible.The words are of god 100%.....See what differences the Muslim from Christianity is that you left the book of God in the hands of the church for thousands of years.
But we muslim we had the Quran just in our hands,but also in our heart we memorized it the Quran,Word for word ,Because we had to pray five times a day reciting the Quran since it was first revealed....everyday five times.How can someone change the Quran.Plus theres something else .People of science have found out that the Quran is put together in codes.Numbers that are connected like a chine.Plus if the Quran was changed it would have lost its miracle power,when any Arab recites the Quran theres a strange powerful and a beautiful melody,Allah tells us that the Quran is souhuf Ibrahim(pbuh)and the Torah of moses(pbuh) ,And the zabour of dived(pbuh) and ,the an jell of Jesus(pbuh).All together...

...So the Quran was in the hand and heart of the people.
The bible was in the hands of the church.Plus you know And I know that the real bible is lost.

Thanks for your latest post.

I don't know much about the Quran, but from what I've seen it is not merely a record of direct speech from God. I'm therefore not sure what your problem is with the Bible, which seems to be no different from the Quran in this regard.

Christians believe that the Bible is inspired by God (in other words, it was written by human beings empowered by the Holy Spirit), which is the sense in which we understand it to be 100% from God. Christadelphians (who run this forum) are particularly passionate about this.

It's not true that the Bible has been corrupted by "the Church" (though we would humbly agree with you that the majority of Christian denominations don't fully understand or teach what the Bible says): we have very ancient documents in existence, which pre-date "the Church" as it now exists, clearly showing that the text of the Bible has not been altered.

I understand this is not the case with the Quran, but somebody better qualified than me will be able to offer more on that. (Maybe John the Bearded will read this thread.)

It doesn't seem to matter to me whether people know these books by heart, but I would say a written record was probably a better way of ensuring the text didn't change, then we're not relying just on people's memories.

There are plenty of supposed codes in the Bible. I don't place much emphasis on them myself, but if such codes exist in the Quran they are not unique.

Thanks again for your post.
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#12 laijorad

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 02:22 AM

Take out all that the Koran borrowed from the bible and you have very little to read in comparison to the whole book.


Prove it .Or are you just repeating what you heard .
Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#13 nightmare

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 05:10 AM

You mock what you dont understand you debate to christadelphians about muslims but neither is in the word of God. Soon enough Christ will be back to reward those who think as smyrna and philadelphia thought.

#14 Jeremy

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 08:55 AM

You mock what you dont understand you debate to christadelphians about muslims but neither is in the word of God. Soon enough Christ will be back to reward those who think as smyrna and philadelphia thought.

I'm hoping, Nightmare, that one day soon you will start engaging with others on this forum, and doing them the courtesy of actually answering their questions. Until then, I'm putting you on "Ignore".
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#15 laijorad

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 03:48 PM

Most of the stories (Moses, Abraham, Solomon, Jesus etc) are taken from the Bible, but then altered. Other parts of the Qu'Ran are copied from early Christian apocryphal books (see here).




Thats all?Thats a prove that the Quran is from the same God of Ibrahim and Moses,Solomon,Jesus(pbut)

You Know, you people are blind.

I told you before some of the Bible is from God...............Quoting from the link you provided.

Just to get warmed up... Cain and Abel

Is the Qur'an's different version of the story of Cain and Abel an improvement of the Old Testament version, or a plagiarism from the Talmud? See for yourself:

Sura 5.31-32

(Qur'an Sura 5.31) Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets-

And here, is an aya like it, a verse found in the Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah

(Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah) Adam and Eve, sitting by the corpse, wept not knowing what to do, for they had as yet no knowledge of burial. A raven came up, took the dead body of its fellow, and having scratched at the earth, buried it thus before their eyes. Adam said, 'Let us follow the example of the raven,' so taking up Abel's body, buried it at once.

5.32 seems to bear no relation to 5.31:

(Sura 5.32) On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

And this, is an aya like it, but from a different source to that found in the Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah:

(Mishnah Sanhedrin 4.5) We find it said in the case of Cain who murdered his brother, the voice of thy brother's blood crieth out' [this latter is a quote from the Bible, Genesis 4:10], and he says, it does not sayeth he hath blood in the singular, but bloods in the plural.' Thou was created single in order to show that to him who kills a single individual, it should be reckoned that he has slain the whole race. But to him who has preserved the life of a single individual, it is counted that he has preserved the whole race.

Hardly surprising that the two verses from the Qur'an seem unrelated if copied from two completely different documents.


See you don't understand the Quran .God said (On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel) Where did God ordained that? In the book of Moses(pbuh)Did you find it in the new testament? So God is telling us in the Quran what he ordained for the Jew in his previous revelations,This is another proof that the Quran is from God,And no you did not produce a Sura like it .These are the same words of God only they have been corrupted by men.Explain this verse.

Jeremiah, Chapter 8, Verse 8 it says this

8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

These are all nothing but proves that the author of the Quran is the same author of the torah and the Bible.And the difference you see between them is another prove that the Jew have changed the word of God.As for the rest of the stories told in the Quran and not told in any other previous revelation of God.It's simply new stories told for the first time in the Quran.Example the story of "Aad".


Discovering the Habitations of "Aad"Link



Edited by laijorad, 09 January 2008 - 06:39 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#16 laijorad

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Posted 09 January 2008 - 06:47 PM

You mock what you dont understand you debate to christadelphians about muslims but neither is in the word of God. Soon enough Christ will be back to reward those who think as smyrna and philadelphia thought.


sorry can you explain more? I don't understand what you mean.Are you upset? don't be,See I respect christadelphian thousand times more then I respect other Christians.Your faith is more pure ,Even though you do have big mistakes but they are nothing compare to the huge mistakes of the other sects of Christianity.I see you are one step far from God.I respect Dr. John Thomas he was a revolutionary thinker.Not like you .
This is religion not a game.Who ever loses in this one his lost for eternity.You all must be up to the task,Seek with true open eyes,not with eyes vialed with heat.Why hate Muslim, the Muslim are the only nation in the world which believes in Jesus and respect and love him,Plus they too are waiting for his second coming.In the contrary you respect the Jew and love them ,And protect them when they had and still have blasphemed against God and called Mariam the mother of Jesus(pbut) bad names,And tried to kill Jesus(pbuh).You are truly unjust,And still believe God is in your side.You still believe Jesus will come in your side in his second coming ,and against us why? What wrong did we say,Or did we do.Your people will call for him when he comes back Jesus.....Jesus,He will not answer you because he doesn't know anyone by that name.His name is Esa(pbuh) both in Arabic and Hebrew in Greek its Esus.It seems that you have added a (J) God knows what it stands for.Maybe you added it as J for junior.Meaning the junior God,Or maybe because you people like to decorate the word of God a lot.And when he understands that you mean him thats what he will answer and say to you.I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:21-23

Edited by laijorad, 09 January 2008 - 08:35 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#17 EliYah

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 11:39 AM

I respect Dr. John Thomas he was a revolutionary thinker.Not like you .

Good point! :)

That is the most ironic thing about Central Christadelphian fellowship. Dr John Thomas was more open-minded in his interpretations of the Bible and the world than many of today's Christadelphians, and yet there are so many among them who criticise 'the LOGOS' community for being 'narrow-minded'! It's a complete joke! In order to accept the teachings of their own pioneers, they would have to OPEN their mind, not CLOSE them?!

#18 Jeremy

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 12:56 PM

That is the most ironic thing about Central Christadelphian fellowship. Dr John Thomas was more open-minded in his interpretations of the Bible and the world than many of today's Christadelphians, and yet there are so many among them who criticise 'the LOGOS' community for being 'narrow-minded'!

Isn't that a contradiction? (Tell me if I've misunderstood.)
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#19 laijorad

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 08:30 PM

I respect Dr. John Thomas he was a revolutionary thinker.Not like you .

Good point! :)

That is the most ironic thing about Central Christadelphian fellowship. Dr John Thomas was more open-minded in his interpretations of the Bible and the world than many of today's Christadelphians, and yet there are so many among them who criticize 'the LOGOS' community for being 'narrow-minded'! It's a complete joke! In order to accept the teachings of their own pioneers, they would have to OPEN their mind, not CLOSE them?!


Thank you......See, they didn't even understand what you meant.Can you please help me?I'm searching for someone like Dr.John Thomas,have anyone from christadelphians added or deleted from Dr.Johns movement.And who is there true leader today? .........I don't know,But I think theres more then one sect in christadelphians,And many new ideas,each one in his own world.and many of them don't even know what is Christadelphian about.I my self didn't know ,But in a month of study. I now believe I know better about Christadelphian more then many in this forum.And I'm up to the challenge.

Edited by laijorad, 10 January 2008 - 08:32 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#20 BlueHorizon

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Posted 10 January 2008 - 10:22 PM

I respect Dr. John Thomas he was a revolutionary thinker.Not like you .

Good point! :)

That is the most ironic thing about Central Christadelphian fellowship. Dr John Thomas was more open-minded in his interpretations of the Bible and the world than many of today's Christadelphians, and yet there are so many among them who criticize 'the LOGOS' community for being 'narrow-minded'! It's a complete joke! In order to accept the teachings of their own pioneers, they would have to OPEN their mind, not CLOSE them?!


Thank you......See, they didn't even understand what you meant.Can you please help me?I'm searching for someone like Dr.John Thomas,have anyone from christadelphians added or deleted from Dr.Johns movement.And who is there true leader today? .........I don't know,But I think theres more then one sect in christadelphians,And many new ideas,each one in his own world.and many of them don't even know what is Christadelphian about.I my self didn't know ,But in a month of study. I now believe I know better about Christadelphian more then many in this forum.And I'm up to the challenge.


Obviously you don't know that much about Christadelphians... our true leader is Christ. Our authority is the Bible, not Dr. John Thomas. It is Jesus you are searching for. Think of us like the Bereans if you like, constantly searching our scriptures to see if that which we hear is true.

I've been reading this discussion with interest (thanks for your input!), but I'm yet to see anything from you that even begins to challenge the authority of the Bible. All I see is a list of statements and opinions with no evidence. That doesn't get you very far on these boards.
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#21 laijorad

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 12:54 AM




Edited by laijorad, 11 January 2008 - 12:56 AM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#22 laijorad

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:12 AM

I respect Dr. John Thomas he was a revolutionary thinker.Not like you .

Good point! :)

That is the most ironic thing about Central Christadelphian fellowship. Dr John Thomas was more open-minded in his interpretations of the Bible and the world than many of today's Christadelphians, and yet there are so many among them who criticize 'the LOGOS' community for being 'narrow-minded'! It's a complete joke! In order to accept the teachings of their own pioneers, they would have to OPEN their mind, not CLOSE them?!


Thank you......See, they didn't even understand what you meant.Can you please help me?I'm searching for someone like Dr.John Thomas,have anyone from christadelphians added or deleted from Dr.Johns movement.And who is there true leader today? .........I don't know,But I think theres more then one sect in christadelphians,And many new ideas,each one in his own world.and many of them don't even know what is Christadelphian about.I my self didn't know ,But in a month of study. I now believe I know better about Christadelphian more then many in this forum.And I'm up to the challenge.


Obviously you don't know that much about Christadelphians... our true leader is Christ. Our authority is the Bible, not Dr. John Thomas. It is Jesus you are searching for. Think of us like the Bereans if you like, constantly searching our scriptures to see if that which we hear is true.

I've been reading this discussion with interest (thanks for your input!), but I'm yet to see anything from you that even begins to challenge the authority of the Bible. All I see is a list of statements and opinions with no evidence. That doesn't get you very far on these boards.

Trust me your leader is not Jesus ,and thanks to Dr.John Thomas you and your parents will be today worshiping Jesus as a God.So respect your dead, and show some gratitude .And my question was not who is your spiritual leader,I know you think it's Jesus, but every one needs a wise leader, even in religion thats why you have a problem in understanding your faith ,every day someone comes and makes his wise interpretation of the word of God,When he knows nothing about God.You need a leader you are like a lost sheep with no shepherd.The Bible will lead you how?....How you understood it or how Dr.john understood it,or how the Orthodox understood it,Or how the catholics understood it,Or how the protestant understood it.Are you gambling with God with your soul.The Bible will lead you no where,It will only confuse you more.I'm sure you don't understand the Bible because if you really read it ,And not just read it. Study it verse by verse.You wouldn't except as a leader.I will give you today a verse I want to ask you to study it with your mother or your daughter or your sister,And come tomorrow ,And we should discuss it.



Genesis 19:31-38 (New International Version)
31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

You call this a book of God is this what you want me to discuss.

What a big lie, I challenge anyone to get real drunk not just drunk ,like this verse describes that great holy prophet of God.Getting drunk until not knowing who your sleeping with (He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up)And then try to have sex .No man can do that,We go straight to sleep.And I have heard of sleep walking put never heard of sleep mating.Have you?How did they conceive from him when he was not aware of there present he was dead drunk.This verse is nothing compared to other greater blasphemes in that book you call Bible.That is not the true Bible of Jesus.Bring me the true Bible of Jesus and by god I will kiss it and put over my head.Because i believe in it,Not in men fabrications.The writers of the Bible were Ignorant in the concept of God.




As for the Bible,I gave you a taste in this forum.But I don't like starting another topic in these boards until this one is closed.But if you want to see my discussions for the Bible you can go here

Edited by laijorad, 11 January 2008 - 10:34 AM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#23 Jeremy

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:25 AM

Trust me your leader is not Jesus

Laijorad, no Christadelphian will swallow this, and it comes across as a bit silly. Friendly observation, meant kindly/constructively: don't make the mistake of thinking that you know Christadelphians better than themselves. I hope that over time you will come to know us better. Thanks for spending time on the Forum so far.
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#24 BlueHorizon

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 09:44 AM

Trust me your leader is not Jesus ,and thanks to Dr.John Thomas you and your parents will be today worshiping Jesus as a God.So respect your dead, and show some gratitude .And my question was not who is your spiritual leader,I know you think it's Jesus, but every one needs a wise leader, even in religion thats why you have a problem in understanding your faith ,every day someone comes and makes his wise interpretation of the word of God,When he knows nothing about God.You need a leader you are like a lost sheep with no shepherd.The Bible will lead you how?....How you understood it or how Dr.john understood it,or how the Orthodox understood it,Or how the catholics understood it,Or how the protestant understood it.Are you gambling with God with your soul.The Bible will lead you no where,It will only confuse you more.I'm sure you don't understand the Bible because if you really read it ,And not just read it. Study it verse by verse.You wouldn't except as a leader.I will give you today a verse I want to ask you to study it with your mother or your daughter or your sister,And come tomorrow ,And we should discuss it.


Thanks for your reply Laijorad - and trust me, my master and leader is Jesus. I am led by his example. There was and is none wiser than Christ so why would I need anyone else to lead me? :)

You've confirmed to me that you do not understand Christadelphians, for we have no leader. By prayer, study and God's blessing of wisdom we have been given our understanding of the Bible. Dr John Thomas formalised the truth which has been in the Bible ever since it was written, other people have independently arrived at the same conclusions as him. We share the thoughts, with each other, through the hundreds of brethren that have written articles and commentaries and then as I mentioned before we search the scriptures as the Bereans do to test the ideas... even those of Dr. John Thomas. No one, or two, three or even 50 brethren stand out above any other brother. Thanks to God we have the truth, not thanks to man. Christ is the head of the church - it says so in the Bible.

If you understood the Bible, you would realise how it can lead you. If you really understood the Bible, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why will the Bible confuse me? You again give no evidence. God is not the author of confusion, and God has preserved his wholly inspired writings so that individuals can discover the truth for themselves. Those that took the Bible stories, altered them, added to them and turned them in to the Quran are the ones who are the author of confusion. From the confused ramblings that you have posted throughout this topic it is clear that you are the one who is confused, not us.

Your comment about the drunkeness is inaccurate, for a moderate amount of alcohol can have an amnesic effect. Open your mind to all possibe explanations! Your use of this passage offers no evidence for anything. You say it's a lie, you don't give any evidence other than your own erroneous opinion. In a court you would be dismissed as an unreliable witness. Your unsupported statements have no bearing for we are not brainwashed, we are each our own independent thinker, finding and considering all the evidence for ourselves before coming to any conclusion.

Neither can you simply study the Bible verse by verse, you have to study it verse by verse in the context of the whole Bible - which you'll find that most here are quite familiar with.
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#25 laijorad

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:24 AM

Trust me your leader is not Jesus

Laijorad, no Christadelphian will swallow this, and it comes across as a bit silly. Friendly observation, meant kindly/constructively: don't make the mistake of thinking that you know Christadelphians better than themselves. I hope that over time you will come to know us better. Thanks for spending time on the Forum so far.



Listen man I know that you believe that Jesus is your leader,But we never heard Jesus say that,Why are you upset don't you believe in his second coming,There he will chose.Because we too believe that Jesus will be our leader.He knows who are the righteous.

I said that Jesus is not his leader because he does not go by the commandments.We Muslim believe that any Christian that held a belief like christadelphin today ,before the time of Islam was a righteous person.But after prophet Mohamed(pbuh)the rules change.Now you must believe in Mohamed(pbuh) as the last prophet ,and The Quran as the last testament.I don't understand your mad at the Jew for not believing Jesus look at your self today.How can you be 100% sure that Mohamed was not a prophet sent by God.Have you heard of religion after Islam or did God send anyone after Mohamed 1400 years are a long period.
As for christadelphian I said I never knew eanything about you before a month or more ,but humans learn you know,With the help of the internet nothing is hard today.I know that you don't believe in the trinity and don't believe in hill or Satan,You don't believe the spirit is eternal.You don't believe in paradise,You don't believe in the ever lasting torment.You believe in the one God ,You believe in the second coming of Jesus(pbuh),You believe in work+worship.Yes you are almost Muslim you just need to say it.And start believing in Paradise,Hell,and in the existence of satan,Because how can someone defend him self from an enemy he denies his existent.The problem that I see ,and you don't is that christadelphian still have some traces of the trinity.Thats why I'm asking about your leader I want to know if christadelphian are going to revise the Bible.And take out the verses that mix Jesus with god.

Thank you.

Edited by laijorad, 11 January 2008 - 01:34 PM.

Humans` are judged by their smallest parts, their TONGUES & HEARTS

#26 Jeremy

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:52 AM

Listen man I know that you believe that Jesus is your leader,But we never heard Jesus say that,

We never heard Jesus say what?

How can you be 100% sure that Mohamed was not a prophet sent by God.

Because:

1. The teachings of Mohamed deny an unshakeable core belief of mine, that Jesus is the Son of God.
2. Many of the other teachings of Mohamed cannot be reconciled with the Bible, which I am convinced is the Word of God (Old Testament and New Testament).
3. I do not believe that the text of the Koran has not changed over time.

I know that you don't believe in the trinity and don't believe in hill or Satan,You don't believe the spirit is eternal.You don't believe in paradise,You don't believe in the ever lasting torment.You believe in the one God ,You believe in the second coming of Jesus(pbuh),You believe in work+worship.Yes you are almost Muslim you just need to say it.

I do not wish to be a Muslim, and will never be one.

And start believing in Paradise,Hell,and in the existence of satan,

Christadelphians believe in all these things; we just understand them differently from you.

The problem that I see ,and you don't is that christadelphian still have some traces of the trinity.Thats why I'm asking about your leader I want to know if christadelphian are going to revise the Bible.And take out the verses that mix Jesus with good.

What "traces of the trinity" do Christadelphians believe, please?

We have no other leader but the Lord Jesus Christ.

We have no intention of revising the Bible or taking out verses, and never have done. Our very existence, from the day our community was organised in its present format, has depended on our belief that the Bible is infallible. (Incidentally, why are you so keen to defend the Bible when you, as a Muslim, don't accept many of its core teachings?)

Thank you.

You're welcome. :)
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#27 BlueHorizon

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 11:56 AM

Trust me your leader is not Jesus

Laijorad, no Christadelphian will swallow this, and it comes across as a bit silly. Friendly observation, meant kindly/constructively: don't make the mistake of thinking that you know Christadelphians better than themselves. I hope that over time you will come to know us better. Thanks for spending time on the Forum so far.



Listen man I know that you believe that Jesus is your leader,But we never heard Jesus say that,Why are you upset don't you believe in his second coming,There he will chose.Because we too believe that Jesus will be our leader.He knows who are the righteous.

I said that Jesus is not his leader because he does not go by the commandments.We Muslim believe that any Christian that held a belief like christadelphin today ,before the time of Islam was a righteous person.But after prophet Mohamed(pbuh)the rules change.Now you must believe in Mohamed(pbuh) as the last prophet ,and The Quran as the last testament.I don't understand your mad at the Jew for not believing Jesus look at your self today.How can you be 100% sure that Mohamed was not a prophet sent by God.Have you heard of religion after Islam or did God send anyone after Mohamed 1400 years are a long period.
As for christadelphian I said I never knew eanything about you before a month or more ,but humans learn you know,With the help of the internet nothing is hard today.I know that you don't believe in the trinity and don't believe in hill or Satan,You don't believe the spirit is eternal.You don't believe in paradise,You don't believe in the ever lasting torment.You believe in the one God ,You believe in the second coming of Jesus(pbuh),You believe in work+worship.Yes you are almost Muslim you just need to say it.And start believing in Paradise,Hell,and in the existence of satan,Because how can someone defend him self from an enemy he denies his existent.The problem that I see ,and you don't is that christadelphian still have some traces of the trinity.Thats why I'm asking about your leader I want to know if christadelphian are going to revise the Bible.And take out the verses that mix Jesus with good.

Thank you.


We don't add or take anything away from the Bible. Pure and simple. We have no traces of Trinity - again no evidence provided by yourself - perhaps you would like to qualify your statement. We are not going to revise the scriptures, we take them as wholly inspired by God.

Jesus said he was our leader - it's in the Bible (here is my evidence)....

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mat 10:37-38 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Joh 10:25-27 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. (26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honor.

Would you like to provide evidence that Mohammed was sent by God please - I suggest you start providing some evidence for your statements or no-one will take you seriously. I assume you'll take me seriously if I say 'the Quran is full of lies' and provide zero evidence to back up my statement. It works both ways - so, respectfully, please stop making unqualified statements and start providing some evidence, otherwise everyone will carry on ignoring you.
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#28 laijorad

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 01:31 PM

Trust me your leader is not Jesus ,and thanks to Dr.John Thomas you and your parents will be today worshiping Jesus as a God.So respect your dead, and show some gratitude .And my question was not who is your spiritual leader,I know you think it's Jesus, but every one needs a wise leader, even in religion thats why you have a problem in understanding your faith ,every day someone comes and makes his wise interpretation of the word of God,When he knows nothing about God.You need a leader you are like a lost sheep with no shepherd.The Bible will lead you how?....How you understood it or how Dr.john understood it,or how the Orthodox understood it,Or how the catholics understood it,Or how the protestant understood it.Are you gambling with God with your soul.The Bible will lead you no where,It will only confuse you more.I'm sure you don't understand the Bible because if you really read it ,And not just read it. Study it verse by verse.You wouldn't except as a leader.I will give you today a verse I want to ask you to study it with your mother or your daughter or your sister,And come tomorrow ,And we should discuss it.


Thanks for your reply Laijorad - and trust me, my master and leader is Jesus. I am led by his example. There was and is none wiser than Christ so why would I need anyone else to lead me? :)

You've confirmed to me that you do not understand Christadelphians, for we have no leader. By prayer, study and God's blessing of wisdom we have been given our understanding of the Bible. Dr John Thomas formalised the truth which has been in the Bible ever since it was written, other people have independently arrived at the same conclusions as him. We share the thoughts, with each other, through the hundreds of brethren that have written articles and commentaries and then as I mentioned before we search the scriptures as the Bereans do to test the ideas... even those of Dr. John Thomas. No one, or two, three or even 50 brethren stand out above any other brother. Thanks to God we have the truth, not thanks to man. Christ is the head of the church - it says so in the Bible.

If you understood the Bible, you would realise how it can lead you. If you really understood the Bible, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Why will the Bible confuse me? You again give no evidence. God is not the author of confusion, and God has preserved his wholly inspired writings so that individuals can discover the truth for themselves. Those that took the Bible stories, altered them, added to them and turned them in to the Quran are the ones who are the author of confusion. From the confused ramblings that you have posted throughout this topic it is clear that you are the one who is confused, not us.

Your comment about the drunkeness is inaccurate, for a moderate amount of alcohol can have an amnesic effect. Open your mind to all possibe explanations! Your use of this passage offers no evidence for anything. You say it's a lie, you don't give any evidence other than your own erroneous opinion. In a court you would be dismissed as an unreliable witness. Your unsupported statements have no bearing for we are not brainwashed, we are each our own independent thinker, finding and considering all the evidence for ourselves before coming to any conclusion.

Neither can you simply study the Bible verse by verse, you have to study it verse by verse in the context of the whole Bible - which you'll find that most here are quite familiar with.


Did you read the verse I gave you to your dughter........here is another more XXX.
Now Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's first-born, was evil in the sight of the LORD, so the LORD took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." And Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so it came about that when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. (NASB) Genesis 38:6-10

This verse is so strange! first God kills the husband for no given reason Just because god didn't like him,Why did he created him then ,And after killing the husband God wants to reword the man he killed for his evil by preserving his name ,Why kill him in the first place,And reword him for what?For his evil.Then God finishes up the second brother for not wanting his son to carry the name of his cursed brother. The authority's of the Jew used a very satanic tactic to control there people.They used to lie and say God said so.
Stop apologizing for something you didn't do,You didn't corrupt the Bible someone else did.I want to know when you read verses like the one about lut (pbuh) do you stop and think,Why would God after saving him from his evil people did not save him from the evil of his daughters a pure prophet of God that talks to angels and receives guidance from God falls in a great sin like this Incest with his daughters something terrible like this,But know If you had any commonsense you would say no a holy man of god a prophet would not fall in the trap of the devil Allah would not allow such thing.God protects his prophets,And how come the two girls were not killed with evil doers of Sodom.Even there mother was killed for her sick desires ,so what happened ?God did not know about the two daughters having the same disease?They slept his knowledge.No it's just that this verse is a lie that should be taken out ,All prophets were protected by God from falling in evil doing. Every one of them,Because if they can not restrain them selves from doing evil how in earth can they be fit to lead there nations to purification.Plus why would Lut's daughters think of such a thought.For your information the prophet lut was not one of the people of Sodom he was the cousin of Ibrahim which was from the Mesopotamia known today as Iraq,He and Lut were from the Canaan tripe,So doughters had no problem in preserving there father's blood line.They could marry the sons of Ibrahim .There of the same blood,And sure Lut(pbuh)could too get married.

If you read very carefully this verse you will find how much lie its and a shame,and you will dam who wrote such a lie and said that Jesus who never told such a lie that he said it or any other prophet.

Edited by laijorad, 11 January 2008 - 01:48 PM.

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#29 BlueHorizon

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:08 PM

Did you read the verse I gave you to your dughter........here is another more XXX.
Now Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's first-born, was evil in the sight of the LORD, so the LORD took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." And Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so it came about that when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. (NASB) Genesis 38:6-10

This verse is so strange! first God kills the husband for no given reason Just because god didn't like him,Why did he created him then ,And after killing the husband God wants to reword the man he killed for his evil by preserving his name ,Why kill him in the first place,And reword him for what?For his evil.Then God finishes up the second brother for not wanting his son to carry the name of his cursed brother. The authority's of the Jew used a very satanic tactic to control there people.They used to lie and say God said so.
Stop apologizing for something you didn't do,You didn't corrupt the Bible someone else did.I want to know when you read verses like the one about lut (pbuh) do you stop and think,Why would God after saving him from his evil people did not save him from the evil of his daughters a pure prophet of God that talks to angels and receives guidance from God falls in a great sin like this Incest with his daughters something terrible like this,But know If you had any commonsense you would say no a holy man of god a prophet would not fall in the trap of the devil Allah would not allow such thing.God protects his prophets,And how come the two girls were not killed with evil doers of Sodom.Even there mother was killed for her sick desires ,so what happened ?God did not know about the two daughters having the same disease?They slept his knowledge.No it's just that this verse is a lie that should be taken out ,All prophets were protected by God from falling in evil doing. Every one of them,Because if they can not restrain them selves from doing evil how in earth can they be fit to lead there nations to purification.Plus why would Lut's daughters think of such a thought.For your information the prophet lut was not one of the people of Sodom he was the cousin of Ibrahim which was from the Mesopotamia known today as Iraq,He and Lut were from the Canaan tripe,So doughters had no problem in preserving there father's blood line.They could marry the sons of Ibrahim .There of the same blood,And sure Lut(pbuh)could too get married.

If you read very carefully this verse you will find how much lie its and a shame,and you will dam who wrote such a lie and said that Jesus who never told such a lie that he said it or any other prophet.


Can someone please explain to me why this guy thinks that this verse is a lie because God chose to hand out punishment to someone who hadn't done his will? If someone sins, the punishment is death. We all live under God's grace. Because God does something that a Muslim cannot understand - why does that make it a lie? Dismissing something as a lie because you haven't been fortunate enough to have been given God's wisdom to understand it is pitiful. I feel so sorry for you, laijorad. I pray that God will open your eyes and ears.

Only one man did no evil - that was Jesus. All others have sinned, and that by extension includes all the prophets (and Mohammed if you like).
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#30 Jeremy

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Posted 11 January 2008 - 02:14 PM

Did you read the verse I gave you to your dughter........here is another more XXX.
Now Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's first-born, was evil in the sight of the LORD, so the LORD took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother." And Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so it came about that when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground, in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also. (NASB) Genesis 38:6-10

This verse is so strange! first God kills the husband for no given reason Just because god didn't like him,

Did you read this verse? Just look at what it says: he "was evil in the sight of the LORD". You are just not reading what the verse says, plain and simple.

Why did he created him then

So you think God makes men evil? Then He's to blame for everything that's wrong in the world, including (I presume you would say) all those who are not Muslims. I don't want to be rude, but you need to think through what you're saying before you post.

And after killing the husband God wants to reword the man he killed for his evil by preserving his name ,Why kill him in the first place,And reword him for what?For his evil.

Where does it say this was a reward? You've added that - it says nothing about this being a reward.

They used to lie and say God said so.

Agreed. But what has this got to do with you and me?

You didn't corrupt the Bible someone else did.

You have yet to provide one shred of evidence for saying that the Bible has been corrupted, and before you say anything else I invite you to do so.

Why would God after saving him from his evil people did not save him from the evil of his daughters

Presumably because God gave Lot the same freewill as you and me. Lot was drunk! Why should God intervene to stop someone disobeying His commandments? Or was it God's fault that Lot was drunk?

But know If you had any commonsense you would say no a holy man of god a prophet would not fall in the trap of the devil Allah would not allow such thing.God protects his prophets

The Bible has numerous examples of God's people making mistakes in their lives. They were flesh and blood the same as you and me. It's one of the things which shows they were normal, human, and that God can still work in their lives (and ours) despite the very serious mistakes they (and we) sometimes make. Are you really suggesting that God's true people are all sinless? Think through what you are saying.

And how come the two girls were not killed with evil doers of Sodom.Even there mother was killed for her sick desires ,so what happened ?God did not know about the two daughters having the same disease?

How do you know what God thought about them? The Bible is completely silent. For all you know they could have been punished later on, or they may be punished on judgement day.

All prophets were protected by God from falling in evil doing.

Again, I invite you to provide evidence of that. If it's God's fault whether people are good or evil, why does He judge them? It's all His fault then, isn't it?

For your information the prophet lut was not one of the people of Sodom he was the cousin of Ibrahim which was from the Mesopotamia known today as Iraq,

Lot was Abraham's nephew.

He and Lut were from the Canaan tripe

If Abraham and Lot were from Mesopotamia (which I agree with), how were they Canaanites? Canaan was the place they went to.

We have given you plenty to think about, and I now renew my invitation to you to provide a single shred of evidence that the Bible has been corrupted. Kindly do that before you contribute anything else to this thread.

Edited by Jeremy, 11 January 2008 - 02:18 PM.
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And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.




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