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#211 nsr

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:33 PM

Amen and that is always my foundation for truth I dont have words in my ear that are contrary and if I did I would ignore them.

So what does this mean:

Its guaranteed because I have accepted Christ and know Him personally in ways that go beyond words in a book.

Are you claiming to know or possess some greater authority than the Bible?



I will never ...
in my own right be even remotely acceptable to God before him I am a pile of dirt I have no problem saying that.

Correct. The same is true for all of us. However, God still asks us to try and be like Jesus.

Tell that to Ananias and Sapphira.

Ill tell it to the whole world.

I think you missed the point. Ananias and Sapphira were baptised into Christ, "saved" according to OSAS, and then sinned against the Holy Spirit and were put to death.

True but it was a nice thought, luckily Ill be getting counted worthy cos Im with Jesus.

How do you know you're with Jesus?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#212 nsr

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:35 PM

The reality is you are right which is why one of my great loves is theology, like I said I have a standpoint on it.

However if you know God personally and you see just how amazing it is being in His presence the intellectual stuff as important as it is takes second place to just the joy of knowing Him. Dont get me wrong the bible is His gift to us and is massively important but the biggest gift he ever gave us was Himself.

It's impossible to know God through any other means than reading the Bible. Unless you just make up stuff that sounds nice.

It is a fact that if there were no Bible, neither of us would ever have heard of God or Jesus.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#213 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:37 PM

How do you know you're with Jesus?


Because I have accepted Him confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart He is Lord.

Now I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live but He lives in me, I am in Christ and am a new creation and He lives in me guides me speaks to me and I have the joy of knowing Him.

What I have done tonight is been personal with you guys Im not saying I have something higher than the bible in terms of authority or teaching, not possible.

I am saying Jesus lives in me and I know Him as Lord and friend I can see this going in circles so am not gonna stick around too much longer tonight its late anyway.

I will just say to you guys if that this Christianity stuff to you is just words in a book and nice feelings and you dont know what I mean when I say I know God personally I would say you can spend the rest of your life studying and you will always miss the point.

#214 Chris

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:39 PM

I will just say to you guys if that this Christianity stuff to you is just words in a book and nice feelings and you dont know what I mean when I say I know God personally I would say you can spend the rest of your life studying and you will always miss the point.


Absolutely not. However, is knowledge of God's truths important for God's people to have? What do you think?

#215 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:41 PM

Absolutely not. However, is knowledge of God's truths important for God's people to have? What do you think?


I think knowledge of God is important but knowing God is everything.

Again for you marrieds what would you prefer just a book about your spouse? or an intimate loving personal relationship?

#216 Chris

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:42 PM

I think knowledge of God is important but knowing God is everything.

Again for you marrieds what would you prefer just a book about your spouse? or an intimate loving personal relationship?


You are still only giving emotional proofs independent of scripture. I don't think you can prove from the Bible what your position is....I really believe that. I know I couldn't when I believed as you do.

#217 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:44 PM

You are still only giving emotional proofs independent of scripture. I don't think you can prove from the Bible what your position is....I really believe that. I know I couldn't when I believed as you do.


Obviously that means you now dont believe as I do thats a shame as knowing about God and knowing God are so different.

#218 Chris

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:45 PM

You are still only giving emotional proofs independent of scripture. I don't think you can prove from the Bible what your position is....I really believe that. I know I couldn't when I believed as you do.


Obviously that means you now dont believe as I do thats a shame as knowing about God and knowing God are so different.


Crazy,

Do you have any solid scriptural proofs for your beliefs? I think we've backed you into a corner and you are grasping for answers.

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#219 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:47 PM

Crazy,

Do you have any solid scriptural proofs for your beliefs? I think we've backed you into a corner and you are grasping for answers.

TwoPutt


To be honest mate thats actually not true I have given plenty of scripture throughout this whole thing and I did not share what I shared for your critique, its kind of a like it or not situation.

But if there is anyone here where some of this rings true and you would like to know God for real and how to go about it please pm me.

#220 Crazy

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:52 PM

Here is a good link about coming to know God personally with lots of scriptures.

http://www.greatcom....kgp/default.htm


John 17:3
This is eternal life, that they may know You,the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Thats a rap good night guys

Bobby

#221 Chris

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 11:54 PM

Crazy,

Do you have any solid scriptural proofs for your beliefs? I think we've backed you into a corner and you are grasping for answers.

TwoPutt


To be honest mate thats actually not true I have given plenty of scripture throughout this whole thing and I did not share what I shared for your critique, its kind of a like it or not situation.

But if there is anyone here where some of this rings true and you would like to know God for real and how to go about it please pm me.


Your answers are simply :thumbsup:

If you cannot continue to discuss the Bible but simply respond with emotional "proofs" you might as well concede the discussion. Remember, you brought up the question to begin with.

TwoPutt

#222 nsr

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 12:05 AM

Because I have accepted Him confessed with my mouth and believed in my heart He is Lord.

Now I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live but He lives in me, I am in Christ and am a new creation and He lives in me guides me speaks to me and I have the joy of knowing Him.

What I have done tonight is been personal with you guys Im not saying I have something higher than the bible in terms of authority or teaching, not possible.

I am saying Jesus lives in me and I know Him as Lord and friend I can see this going in circles so am not gonna stick around too much longer tonight its late anyway.

I will just say to you guys if that this Christianity stuff to you is just words in a book and nice feelings and you dont know what I mean when I say I know God personally I would say you can spend the rest of your life studying and you will always miss the point.

So in the end, it's based on you somehow "knowing" things.

You don't know God or Jesus at all if you consider the Bible to be of secondary importance to your own "knowledge". Where did this "knowledge" come from, if you don't mind my asking?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#223 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:30 AM

You don't know God or Jesus at all if you consider the Bible to be of secondary importance to your own "knowledge". Where did this "knowledge" come from, if you don't mind my asking?


The Bible clear and simple.

Let me ask you do you worship God or do you worship the bible?

I am just trying to communicate that God is more important to me than the bible however if God is that important to me then the bible is my authority because thats why He gave it.

#224 nsr

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:52 AM

The Bible clear and simple.

Good :thumbsup:. You sound far too rational to be one of those people who believes they have received a special personal revelation from God.

Let me ask you do you worship God or do you worship the bible?

I worship God, and I believe the Bible is the word of God, effectively God speaking to us. I understand where you're coming from though. The Pharisees, for example, worshipped rote observation of the Law of Moses rather than worshipping the God who gave them that law.

I am just trying to communicate that God is more important to me than the bible however if God is that important to me then the bible is my authority because thats why He gave it.

Sure, I understand that. I'm not asking you to diminish your love for God in any way. But as I said before, truly loving God is impossible without a correct knowledge of why we should love Him, i.e. all the things He has done for us and how we should respond. The only place we can learn about those things is the Bible. When people have differing ideas about God, they can't all be right, and how can anyone worship God with an incorrect understanding of Him? The only place where we can find the truth is the Bible.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#225 Huldah

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:58 AM

Let me ask you do you worship God or do you worship the bible?

This seems an odd question to ask. Can I ask you what you mean by it Crazy?
"Dear friends, if our conscience does not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing to him. Now this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us the commandment. And the person who keeps his commandments resides in God, and God in him. Now by this we know that God resides in us: by the Spirit he has given us"
1 John 3.21-24

#226 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:59 AM

NSR that is cool, I stand by all else I have said earlier but I would strongly agree with all you have said there.

Edited by Crazy, 08 February 2007 - 07:59 AM.


#227 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:01 AM

This seems an odd question to ask. Can I ask you what you mean by it Crazy?



I was talking earlier about knowing God and having a relationship with Him passes the significance of even the bible because God is the most significant thing ever. However in my enthusiasm I made it sound like I have special revelation that goes beyond the bible.

This is not at all the case the bible is my source of authority in anything particularly with regards to spiritual experiences etc, however I can understand how I confused people there.

#228 Huldah

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:06 AM

OK, thanks for clearing that up. :thumbsup:
"Dear friends, if our conscience does not condemn us, we have confidence in the presence of God and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing to him. Now this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us the commandment. And the person who keeps his commandments resides in God, and God in him. Now by this we know that God resides in us: by the Spirit he has given us"
1 John 3.21-24

#229 Stephanos

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 01:39 PM

You don't know God or Jesus at all if you consider the Bible to be of secondary importance to your own "knowledge". Where did this "knowledge" come from, if you don't mind my asking?


The Bible clear and simple.

Let me ask you do you worship God or do you worship the bible?

I am just trying to communicate that God is more important to me than the bible however if God is that important to me then the bible is my authority because thats why He gave it.


Here is a good link about coming to know God personally with lots of scriptures.

http://www.greatcom....kgp/default.htm

Dear Crazy,

In previous posts, You claim your knowledge comes from the bible, you even point to it and say that it is your authority because God gave it. ( whatever you mean by that)

You also in response say here is a good link...with lots of scripture......and you point to that.

You have to know and understand what the scriputre says and means, not just hook into a good feeling story because that feels better than the truth.

Keep searching the scripture not some collection of verses used to convey a doctrine that doesn't hold up to scrutiny .
All the best....

#230 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 01:45 PM

You have to know and understand what the scriputre says and means, not just hook into a good feeling story because that feels better than the truth.


Man my head has hit that wall again never mind im not giving up!!!!

Well nice statement Stephanos but tell me about your relationship with God do you know Him, eternal life is knowing Jesus from what I see if the bible.

Let me ask you mate is your faith entirely devoted on the bible and nothing else, clearly our authority is there but the bible is full of people who walked with God and knew Him personally.

Is that you as well or is it all just a load of knowledge? Thats sad as if so, if Christianity was all fake you woudnt even know.

#231 Guido

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:05 PM

Let me ask you mate is your faith entirely devoted on the bible and nothing else, clearly our authority is there but the bible is full of people who walked with God and knew Him personally.

Is that you as well or is it all just a load of knowledge? Thats sad as if so, if Christianity was all fake you woudnt even know.

I've never actually met Jesus, so I can't say I know him "personally". But, having never seen him, I believe in him. I believe he is the Son of God and that he died for our sins. I know he loves me, for the Bible tells me so; and I love him back. I ask of the Father in his name, as he said to do, and I believe the Father and Son hear my prayers. And, I desire above all things to serve him and please him.

Is this what you're talking about, Bobby?

#232 Chris

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:06 PM

Crazy,

Sounds very much like you are attempting to separate knowing God from His own inspired Word. Is that the case? Are the scriptures in any way contrary to God? Where else do we go to know God than to His scriptures.

What Jesus said to the Jews still stands....the Scriptures testify of Him. So, that means we come to know Christ and God from them....not from emotional positions we've experienced. Emotion is a very strong motivator, but isn't truth. The Jews had a zeal but wasn't according to God's truth.

TwoPutt

#233 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:19 PM

I've never actually met Jesus, so I can't say I know him "personally". But, having never seen him, I believe in him. I believe he is the Son of God and that he died for our sins. I know he loves me, for the Bible tells me so; and I love him back. I ask of the Father in his name, as he said to do, and I believe the Father and Son hear my prayers. And, I desire above all things to serve him and please him.

Is this what you're talking about, Bobby?

Pretty much however there are times in my life where I have known God close in a very tangible way, also there has been times when He has spoken to me and in quite specific ways.

Quick example. Once I was with my girlfriend at the time and she was very upset and would not tell me why, she was not good at talking about things so I iffered to pray with her.

When I prayed I felt God telling me what was going on and I told her that I knew this, it was correct and helped me to support her more.

Sounds very much like you are attempting to separate knowing God from His own inspired Word. Is that the case? Are the scriptures in any way contrary to God? Where else do we go to know God than to His scriptures.


Not at all God is a realy person who exists and works in our lives the bible is our authority for what is true and tells us all we need to know about God for salvation and Godliness.

However as David did and so many others you can know His touch in your life personally its not seperate from the scriptures its just part of the Christian life.

#234 Chris

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:34 PM

Sounds very much like you are attempting to separate knowing God from His own inspired Word. Is that the case? Are the scriptures in any way contrary to God? Where else do we go to know God than to His scriptures.


Not at all God is a realy person who exists and works in our lives the bible is our authority for what is true and tells us all we need to know about God for salvation and Godliness.

However as David did and so many others you can know His touch in your life personally its not seperate from the scriptures its just part of the Christian life.


Okay, then why aren't you --

1. Using Biblical proofs for your own beliefs instead of continually falling back on emotion and personal experiences

2. Considering the large amount of Biblical proofs being offered contrary to your view of "born again"?

TwoPutt

#235 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:42 PM

2. Considering the large amount of Biblical proofs being offered contrary to your view of "born again"?


I can barely remember one. Do you disagree with being born again Jesus said you must be, just because I dont quote a hundred verses it doesnt mean im not giving you biblical proof please read my posts again it is there. (although dont just quote one where I didnt and think that proves your point)


Here is a good desription biblically and practically of coming to know God.

http://www.greatcom....kgp/default.htm

Is this Christianity personal and intimate to you guys or is it all just facts????

Edited by Crazy, 08 February 2007 - 03:44 PM.


#236 Chris

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:49 PM

2. Considering the large amount of Biblical proofs being offered contrary to your view of "born again"?


I can barely remember one. Do you disagree with being born again Jesus said you must be, just because I dont quote a hundred verses it doesnt mean im not giving you biblical proof please read my posts again it is there. (although dont just quote one where I didnt and think that proves your point)


Yes, I do believe in being born again. As a matter of fact, I believe I am born anew (better word). But, what I believe the Bible teaches about being born again is a far cry from what you believe it says.


Here is a good desription biblically and practically of coming to know God.

http://www.greatcom....kgp/default.htm


No thanks, I've been there before.

Is this Christianity personal and intimate to you guys or is it all just facts????


What a silly question. Of course its personal and intimate to us. And, what is the opposite of "facts" anyway??

#237 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:50 PM

Yes, I do believe in being born again. As a matter of fact, I believe I am born anew (better word). But, what I believe the Bible teaches about being born again is a far cry from what you believe it says.


Ok my turn to listen tell me how?

#238 Richie

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:51 PM

Speaking for myself knowing God is much more than facts, and I have experienced the mercy, grace and patience of our heavenly father. But as others have said, if we believe doctrines which are contrary to what the Bible says then we aren't really listening to him. We have to empty our minds of notions and listen. That's what he wants us to do - listening to him instead of the philosophies of the world that bring in strange teachings like the Trinity.
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett.

#239 Crazy

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:54 PM

Speaking for myself knowing God is much more than facts, and I have experienced the mercy, grace and patience of our heavenly father. But as others have said, if we believe doctrines which are contrary to what the Bible says then we aren't really listening to him. We have to empty our minds of notions and listen. That's what he wants us to do - listening to him instead of the philosophies of the world that bring in strange teachings like the Trinity.


I know thats your view, do you not think I think you guys are making some serious mistakes in your theology??? Thats what this is all about.

I am just respecting you guys by not making that point at the end of every post I make.

#240 Guido

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 03:55 PM

Quick example. Once I was with my girlfriend at the time and she was very upset and would not tell me why, she was not good at talking about things so I iffered to pray with her.

When I prayed I felt God telling me what was going on and I told her that I knew this, it was correct and helped me to support her more.

You may be surprised to know this, but all of us here believe that God is working in our lives. We're not sure how and when, but we trust it is so. Personally, I've never had an experience where I felt God was communicating to me but he knows he is quite welcome to do so as far as I'm concerned :thumbsup:

I don't know why we give the impression that our Christian life is cold and sterile. Is it because we discuss the Scriptures without appealing to our own subjective experiences? Just because we don't appeal to emotions doesn't mean we don't have any.

Edited by Guido, 08 February 2007 - 03:56 PM.





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