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#1 Esther

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 01:46 PM

"There are always critics of formality in worship. Formality is not always a popular word. But all too often the reaction against it is lacking in thought. 'Christ and the apostles would have had none of this formality, surely: they were sincere and spontaneous in their worship,' it is said. Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction. Could we say that the worship of Christ, who obeyed the law to perfection, was irregular and formless? It could hardly be levelled at the apostles either, who set up and established the first ecclesias on a fomal basis. It is easy to get carried away with the apparent bogeyman of formality, especially for the young, and to decry it as stifling zeal and emotion.
David was undoubtedly a man who was spontaneous and sincere in his worship of the Lord; how he loved the form of the worship that he knew. He said: 'Lord, I have loved the habitation of they house.' 'In the congregation will I bless the Lord.' He said that the law of the Lord was perfect, the Lord's statutes rejoiced the heart, His commandments were pure and enlightening, the fear of the Lord clean and enduring, His judgments true and altogether righteous, and all this was more to be desired than fine gold, and sweeter than the finest honey. Yes, in the congregation he rejoiced to bless the Lord in the formal worship. Let us never believe that the formality of our worship can ever stand in the way of the spiritual pleasures it can give us..."

-C Attridge(March Exhortations, pp. 51-52)

#2 Fortigurn

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 03:07 PM

Well said. :eek:

It should be said more often.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/htm/beliefs/basf.htm" target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

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#3 sarah

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:12 PM

Well said. :eek:

It should be said more often.


formality of meetings can provide us with that oasis of organisaation that can really help us through some tough times. :coffee:

#4 Evangelion

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:30 PM

Amen! :eek:

What a cracking good quote that is. :eek:
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Credo

#5 Adanac

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 06:48 PM

Often people who complain about formalism actually just worship using another form. Formalism is part of our nature - we cling to structure.

Exodus 25:9 is surely important, but the warnings against ritualism in Scripture need to balance this all out.
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#6 mji

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:33 PM

I am struggling a bit with his definition of formality, since just about any type of communal worship in just about any church becomes formal, and it then becomes hard to see what he is reacting against.

If he is saying that ritual in worship...
(1) need not detract from the emotional and intellectual communion with heaven, and
(2) can and should help our the emotional and intellectual communion with heaven
then Amen from me too.

If it really only boils down to you can have ritual that gets you emotional and doesn't kill your zealousness, then "yep, good reminder" from me. Is that all he means though? -from the quote as it is I can't tell.

And not sure about the bit in bold - it's a hard sentence to make sense of. If he means that ritual in worship will never impede us from receiving a spiritual benefit...that's a very bold statement to make and very hard to support I'd have thought.

Perhaps he means that ritual in worship should never impede us from receiving a spiritual benefit - ie it is our own fault if we do not engage with the ritual in a way that provides a benefit?...hmmmm - depends what exactly is intended to come within the scope of his formality, I think.

Or perhaps he means that ritual in worship should never be allowed to impede us from receiving a spiritual benefit - ie that it is up to us to use ritual as a benficial tool and adapt it to the overriding objective of acceptable communion with heaven, rather than for us to allow ritual to become our master?...I'd agree if he meant that.

Edited by mji, 09 March 2006 - 07:39 PM.

...be imitators of God as dearly loved children and live in love...

images

#7 Dawn

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 07:56 PM

As someone who has had to endure "informality" in worship which can lead to all kinds of stupid and condescending undignified things, I like the CDN formality in worship. I do not have a problem with it at all and find it quite beautiful. It is sometimes very moving - especially when you sense all ther CDNs around you are singing words which they believe with their whole hearts, as you yourself do.

Formal worship can be more "internalised" than what I would consider some "Biblical" concepts of worship (which is often exuberant and sometimes loud, and includes dancing), but I like formal worship and there is nothing wrong in it at all.

I've missed it very much during the last 12 years.
"....when you Think of Things, you find sometimes that the Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it" (A A Milne)


"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves" Philippians 2:3

#8 Nyssette

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 08:32 PM

Often people who complain about formalism actually just worship using another form. Formalism is part of our nature - we cling to structure.

Exodus 25:9 is surely important, but the warnings against ritualism in Scripture need to balance this all out.


Ricky!
what do you mean they worship using another form?

#9 Adanac

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 09:51 PM


Often people who complain about formalism actually just worship using another form. Formalism is part of our nature - we cling to structure.

Exodus 25:9 is surely important, but the warnings against ritualism in Scripture need to balance this all out.


Ricky!
what do you mean they worship using another form?

Once upon a time a brother in Christ (who you know very well) visited another ecclesia far, far away. He was impressed by what went on. Instead of all sitting in rows they sat around a table and had a meal. The exhortation was given by about 2 or 3 brethren, just a few remarks on the readings, nothing fancy and no standing at a lecturn.

He returned to his home ecclesia all animated and told an older brother. The older brother turned to him, smiled and said, "it's just another form".

People tend to focus so much on the how of doing things on Sunday that they forget the why. We are told an awful lot about the why in Scripture but, apart from the bread and wine, we know little of anything about the how.
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#10 Nyssette

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:43 AM

People tend to focus so much on the how of doing things on Sunday that they forget the why. We are told an awful lot about the why in Scripture but, apart from the bread and wine, we know little of anything about the how.



Okay, that works for me. Especially when there are alot of people you need more structure. In Doha, we all sat around a a dining room table, which made it feel more interactive I guess cause we could all see eachother. Also we listened to alot of tapes, and if someone didn't understand something or got lost on a point they would simply ask to stop the tape so we could discuss, and then press play again when we were ready! It worked quite well! And really, even if memorial say was changed to be less formal, that would soon get old and it would become routine, losing like you said the WHY we do what we do. Its a mind set, and like Dawn said it can be very moving!
:shrug:



edit: fixed tags

Edited by Kesaph, 18 March 2006 - 10:12 AM.


#11 Steven

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 08:25 AM

Folks
I'm sorry to pour cold water on a quote which says what we all want to hear but it sticks out rather noticeably that Biblical examples in that excerpt are back to front:

* Looking at both Acts and the Epistles there's not much evidence beyond the Jerusalem Council's letter and "such is our practice in all churches" re sisters squeaking in 1Co14 to demonstrate that the apostles "established the first ecclesias on a fomal basis".

* The example of Daniel is in private personal worship following a set prayer routine. There is no context of group "formality" involved.

* The example of David's recorded behaviour throughout 1&2 Samuel (not just 2 Samuel 16:14) would appear to contradict the conclusion - apart from Elijah John the Baptist etc there wouldn't be many less formal individuals in the OT than David.

* The general movement of the NT is a reaction against form and formality at its most extreme - the Law, the Temple, etc etc.

So, I beg to differ: Despite the soundbite value of this excerpt, and despite everyone's enthusiastic endorsement of Colin's viewpoint, both experience and common sense tend to indicate that formality generally does mean people are being bound to a greater or lesser extent by form and formalities. And I offer the following soundbite (on Romans 12:11?) as a counterweight:

"We must keep our spirit at boiling point. The one man whom the Risen Christ could not stand was the man who was neither hot nor cold" (Barclay).




PS to Nyssa

In Doha, we all sat around a a dining room table, which made it feel more interactive I guess cause we could all see eachother.


Also less formal if (presumably) the Qatar group included westerners, Indians and Philippinos? :coffee:

#12 Fortigurn

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 11:02 AM

Folks
I'm sorry to pour cold water on a quote which says what we all want to hear but it sticks out rather noticeably that Biblical examples in that excerpt are back to front:

* Looking at both Acts and the Epistles there's not much evidence beyond the Jerusalem Council's letter and "such is our practice in all churches" re sisters squeaking in 1Co14 to demonstrate that the apostles "established the first ecclesias on a fomal basis".

* The example of Daniel is in private personal worship following a set prayer routine. There is no context of group "formality" involved.

* The example of David's recorded behaviour throughout 1&2 Samuel (not just 2 Samuel 16:14) would appear to contradict the conclusion - apart from Elijah John the Baptist etc there wouldn't be many less formal individuals in the OT than David.

* The general movement of the NT is a reaction against form and formality at its most extreme - the Law, the Temple, etc etc.


This is the formality he's talking about:

Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction.


You don't need to read '19th century English stuffiness' for 'formality'. That is not what he means. Nor does he mean '1st/2nd Temple rituals'.

Actually, if you look at the life of David, you'll find no one man made up more rituals and ordinances to formalise group worship than he did. And that was apparently the high point of worship in Israel's entire history.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/htm/beliefs/basf.htm" target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Apologetics

#13 Adanac

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:20 PM

There is formality - ritualism and tradition, and then there is formality - doing things according to the pattern of God's word.

Edited by Adanac, 18 March 2006 - 06:21 PM.

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#14 Steven

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 02:46 AM

This is the formality he's talking about:

Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction.


I know. But as I said; the problem is that Colin is taking an example of one man's routine IN PRIVATE, and applying it to a goup IN ECCLESIIS. A routine followed/imposed by a group has different mechanics to a routine chosen by an individual in his own room. What we should be looking for are NT verses that justify the following in a group context:

Main Entry: for·mal·i·ty
Pronunciation: for-'ma-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 : compliance with formal or conventional rules : CEREMONY
2 : the quality or state of being formal
3 : an established form or procedure that is required or conventional


This, whichever way we cut it, is not what is suggested by verses such as Ephesians 5:19 "...speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and strumming in your heart to the Lord"

There's a scale, as always: At one extreme we have Corinthian riot and disorder, at the other we have dour holy Presbyterian miseryguts. The healthy position is in the middle per 1Co14:15 "What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also"

Generally Colin, assuming that quote is in context, is wrong: life in the spirit is not aided by "compliance with formal or conventional rules," "the quality or state of being formal," or "an established form or procedure that is required or conventional". The fruits of the Spirit "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" etc should be both sustained AND spontaneous. Formality doesn't of itself promote these fruits in either form.

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S.

#15 Fortigurn

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 08:28 AM


This is the formality he's talking about:

Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction.


I know. But as I said; the problem is that Colin is taking an example of one man's routine IN PRIVATE, and applying it to a goup IN ECCLESIIS.


What he's actually doing is simply using one example of a routine. He didn't need to use Daniel, but it doesn't matter that he did.

The 1st century ecclesia had routines, we know it for a fact.

This, whichever way we cut it, is not what is suggested by verses such as Ephesians 5:19 "...speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and strumming in your heart to the Lord"


It's not? :confused:

Generally Colin, assuming that quote is in context, is wrong: life in the spirit is not aided by "compliance with formal or conventional rules," "the quality or state of being formal," or "an established form or procedure that is required or conventional".


You're using definitions he didn't.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/htm/beliefs/basf.htm" target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

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http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Apologetics

#16 Adanac

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 04:23 PM

There's a thread on here somewhere on this subject that Martyn and I were going to turn into an article for The Christadelphian but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Where is it? Martyn?
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#17 Jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 08:21 PM

There's a thread on here somewhere on this subject that Martyn and I were going to turn into an article for The Christadelphian but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Where is it? Martyn?

I think Martyn is away for another week.
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#18 Adanac

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 10:18 PM

There's a thread on here somewhere on this subject that Martyn and I were going to turn into an article for The Christadelphian but that seems to have gone by the wayside. Where is it? Martyn?

I think Martyn is away for another week.

:confused:

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#19 Jeremy

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 10:33 PM


I think Martyn is away for another week.

The fiend!

CBM.
And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

#20 Adanac

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 10:35 PM

One gathered. :confused:
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#21 Dawn

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:42 PM

I think worship "in spirit and in truth" has always had a certain formality: otherwise you end up with Toronto stuff.

In worship it is important to BE true: being true is an important part of worship. This is where I have failed to find I can worship in some mainstream churches, because I cannot be true to (a) my beliefs (b) my emotions. And probably other things as well.

OT worship had formality even when it was a) loud - with louds of trumpets and singers and instruments b) involved dancing and movement - eg: the "Chagag" at the Feasts c) joyful.

Davidic worship is slightly different and probably wouldn't probably go down too well in Christadelphian circles, though I don't see why not if the time and setting was right and Davidic worship is the only type I have felt at home without outside of Christadelphia.
"....when you Think of Things, you find sometimes that the Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it" (A A Milne)


"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves" Philippians 2:3

#22 Fortigurn

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 04:10 AM

I believe Paul's phrase for it was 'Do everything in a decent and orderly manner' (1 Corinthians 14:40).
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/htm/beliefs/basf.htm" target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Apologetics

#23 Steven

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 08:52 AM

You're using definitions he didn't.


Well, yes, that was Merriam-Webster. Compact Oxford isn't greatly different:

formality
• noun (pl. formalities) 1 the rigid observance of rules or convention. 2 a thing done simply to comply with convention or regulations. 3 (a formality) a thing done or occurring as a matter of course; an inevitability.



There's a fancy name for the sort of fallacy that starts with making one's own definition of a word (in English, Greek, Hebrew etc), knocking it down or out (in the case of Christ[adelph]ians typically with shoehorned verses), and then arriving back at point of departure having proved something to oneself. Unfortunately the fancy word escapes me due to chronic caffeine deficiency....

Anyway, enough highfalutin' stuff, here's something to lower the tone (please ignore doctrinal incorrectness of Mary being in heaven)

Attached Files


Edited by Steven, 20 March 2006 - 08:54 AM.


#24 R2D2

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:26 AM

Actually I find that Sarah's quote is really true for me.

If I've had a topsy turvy week or few months it is good to know that I can rock up on Sunday and know what to expect. I can relax and let the message sink in. I really look forward to listening to whatever message the speaker is going to get me to think about.

I don't think I could cope with a spontaneous "right let's go outside and do a happy dance". Suppose I wasn't feeling happy? I just want peace and quiet to examine myself.

I'm speaking only of Sunday morning - I think that having interesting and novel Bible Classes or social gatherings are right up my alley. Plus our ecclesia has regular musical devotional evenings too which provides an outlet of spontaneity since the songs are decided on the night.

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#25 Fortigurn

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 12:02 PM


You're using definitions he didn't.


Well, yes, that was Merriam-Webster. Compact Oxford isn't greatly different:

formality
• noun (pl. formalities) 1 the rigid observance of rules or convention. 2 a thing done simply to comply with convention or regulations. 3 (a formality) a thing done or occurring as a matter of course; an inevitability.



There's a fancy name for the sort of fallacy that starts with making one's own definition of a word (in English, Greek, Hebrew etc), knocking it down or out (in the case of Christ[adelph]ians typically with shoehorned verses), and then arriving back at point of departure having proved something to oneself. Unfortunately the fancy word escapes me due to chronic caffeine deficiency....


Number 1 works for me (though 'rigid' doesn't need to be there). As Iv'e said, I believe Paul's phrase for it was 'Do everything in a decent and orderly manner' (1 Corinthians 14:40).

That works for me also. God knows order and form are useful to us, which is why He ordained both order and form. So did Christ.
Miserere mei Deus,
Secundum magnam misericordiam tuam.
Et secundum multitudinem miserationum tuarum
dele iniquitatem meam.

______________________________________________________________________
http://www.thechristadelphians.org/htm/beliefs/basf.htm" target="_blank">I am a Christadelphian. Click here to see my confession of faith.
______________________________________________________________________
‘John Wesley once received a note which said, “The Lord has told me to tell you that He doesn’t need your book-learning, your Greek, and your Hebrew.”

Wesley answered “Thank you, sir. Your letter was superfluous, however, as I already knew the Lord has no need for my ‘book-learning,’ as you put it. However—although the Lord has not directed me to say so—on my own responsibility I would like to say to you that the Lord does not need your ignorance, either.”

Osborne & Woodward, ‘Handbook for Bible study’, pp. 13-14 (1979)

______________________________________________________________________
http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">Apologetics

#26 Esther

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 01:26 PM

When I read this quote, it just made me think of the casual, come-as-you-are, we-accept-anything churches of today who might argue that any kind of guidelines for worship takes away from the communing with God, which is not the case at all. That's all I wanted to emphasize.

#27 Asyncritus

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 06:12 PM

Nobody reading the Law could fail to see the formal, rigid, precise methods that were demanded: and the penalty for code-breaking was sometimes death, as Nadab and Abihu found to their cost.

In the NT, no temple, no sacrifices, no priests, no Levites, not much formality anywhere, things were decidedly different. But even here there are 'traditions' which had to be observed, however they may be defined:

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

The latter included wearing head-coverings, obviously. The 'decently and in order' prohibited caterwauling and heated exchanges in the assembly. The 'set in order' instructions (1 Cor 11.34 and Titus 1.5) clearly imply that there WAS some kind of order that was required.

It would be very surprising if a religion which was derived from the Jewish one, with its extensive order and ritual instructions, wasn't orderly - meaning that there was some sort of formality. But it can go too far on the one hand, and not go far enough on the other.

Abraham, long before the Law of Moses, clearly observed rituals and order: 26. 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept (1) my charge, (2) my commandments, (3) my statutes, and (4) my laws.

Those aren't repetitions for the sake of emphasis, they are a list of separate and distinct elements of his worship, which he had received either from God, or somehow from his forefathers.

Cain disobeyed the ritual requirements of the Law and was rejected - while Abel observed them and was blessed.

Daniel was exceedingly scrupulous about his personal worship habits, and perhaps the more so because as a eunuch he was probably excluded from the synagogue - he certainly would have been excluded from the Temple had he gone there.

So unless they were on the run, as Elijah was, worship does not appear to be a slapdash thing anywhere in Scripture, from the beginning to the end. The Revelation seems super-highly structured and the worship appears highly organised in heaven.

I wouldn't argue for the sort of formality that prevents you from breathing too loudly, from entering if you were late, that excludes babies and young children, that prevents the president from changing a hymn or adding one or two if he felt it was needed. Nor would I support the formality that demands the wearing of a certain colour of tie, or black suits and the carrying of briefcases. And no doubt you can think of other extreme examples.

But I wouldn't support the attitude that says: God looks on the heart, therefore it doesn't matter how scruffy I look. Being slipshod in one's attire when meeting in God's house isn't good or seemly, I feel. If what appears to be slipshod is the very best you have, then by all means wear it. But if you have better - however you define better - then I feel it is incumbent on us to wear that. Moderation in all things means clothing too. Two acres of hat between you and the exhorting brother is a trifle off-putting!

I believe there's a balance to be sought, and to be fair to the human organism, it will find the correct balance if given a reasonable chance.

Edited by Asyncritus, 20 March 2006 - 06:17 PM.

God, be merciful to me
The Sinner

#28 sarah

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Posted 20 March 2006 - 09:30 PM

Actually I find that Sarah's quote is really true for me.

If I've had a topsy turvy week or few months it is good to know that I can rock up on Sunday and know what to expect. I can relax and let the message sink in. I really look forward to listening to whatever message the speaker is going to get me to think about.

I don't think I could cope with a spontaneous "right let's go outside and do a happy dance". Suppose I wasn't feeling happy? I just want peace and quiet to examine myself.

I'm speaking only of Sunday morning - I think that having interesting and novel Bible Classes or social gatherings are right up my alley. Plus our ecclesia has regular musical devotional evenings too which provides an outlet of spontaneity since the songs are decided on the night.

R2D2


thank you R2

#29 He-man

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 02:19 AM

"There are always critics of formality in worship. Formality is not always a popular word. But all too often the reaction against it is lacking in thought. 'Christ and the apostles would have had none of this formality, surely: they were sincere and spontaneous in their worship,' it is said. Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction. Could we say that the worship of Christ, who obeyed the law to perfection, was irregular and formless? It could hardly be levelled at the apostles either, who set up and established the first ecclesias on a fomal basis. It is easy to get carried away with the apparent bogeyman of formality, especially for the young, and to decry it as stifling zeal and emotion.
David was undoubtedly a man who was spontaneous and sincere in his worship of the Lord; how he loved the form of the worship that he knew. He said: 'Lord, I have loved the habitation of they house.' 'In the congregation will I bless the Lord.' He said that the law of the Lord was perfect, the Lord's statutes rejoiced the heart, His commandments were pure and enlightening, the fear of the Lord clean and enduring, His judgments true and altogether righteous, and all this was more to be desired than fine gold, and sweeter than the finest honey. Yes, in the congregation he rejoiced to bless the Lord in the formal worship. Let us never believe that the formality of our worship can ever stand in the way of the spiritual pleasures it can give us..."

-C Attridge(March Exhortations, pp. 51-52)

Your formal ;) stinks!
In every word and all knowledge as the testimony of the God was firmed up in you
So that you would be not lacking in not even one favor awaiting the revelation of the Lord of us Jesus Anointed who will also firm you up unto the end without reproach in the day of the Lord of us Jesus
Faithful is the God through whom you were called into fellowship of His Son Jesus Anointed the Lord of us
I entreat you brothers through the name of the Lord of us Jesus Anointed that you all speak the same and that there be no divisions or splits among you but you should be readying with the same mind and with the same opinion for it was made manifest to me concerning you brothers by the ones of Chloe that there are strifes among you......

You are best to Put away formality and teach the Word of God.
For it has been written I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and I will set aside the learning of the intelligent.
He-man Called "THE SINGER"
1 Chr 25:5 King's seerer in the matters of God
1 Chr XV 16-22 "The Vocal & Instrumental Music of the Temple Service in the Reign of David"

#30 Asyncritus

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 09:12 AM


"There are always critics of formality in worship. Formality is not always a popular word. But all too often the reaction against it is lacking in thought. 'Christ and the apostles would have had none of this formality, surely: they were sincere and spontaneous in their worship,' it is said. Well, what does formality mean? It means having a form, a regular shape, a pattern, like Daniel praying three times daily in a certain place, at a certain time, and facing in a certain direction. Could we say that the worship of Christ, who obeyed the law to perfection, was irregular and formless? It could hardly be levelled at the apostles either, who set up and established the first ecclesias on a fomal basis. It is easy to get carried away with the apparent bogeyman of formality, especially for the young, and to decry it as stifling zeal and emotion.
David was undoubtedly a man who was spontaneous and sincere in his worship of the Lord; how he loved the form of the worship that he knew. He said: 'Lord, I have loved the habitation of they house.' 'In the congregation will I bless the Lord.' He said that the law of the Lord was perfect, the Lord's statutes rejoiced the heart, His commandments were pure and enlightening, the fear of the Lord clean and enduring, His judgments true and altogether righteous, and all this was more to be desired than fine gold, and sweeter than the finest honey. Yes, in the congregation he rejoiced to bless the Lord in the formal worship. Let us never believe that the formality of our worship can ever stand in the way of the spiritual pleasures it can give us..."

-C Attridge(March Exhortations, pp. 51-52)

Your formal ;) stinks!
In every word and all knowledge as the testimony of the God was firmed up in you
So that you would be not lacking in not even one favor awaiting the revelation of the Lord of us Jesus Anointed who will also firm you up unto the end without reproach in the day of the Lord of us Jesus
Faithful is the God through whom you were called into fellowship of His Son Jesus Anointed the Lord of us
I entreat you brothers through the name of the Lord of us Jesus Anointed that you all speak the same and that there be no divisions or splits among you but you should be readying with the same mind and with the same opinion for it was made manifest to me concerning you brothers by the ones of Chloe that there are strifes among you......

You are best to Put away formality and teach the Word of God.
For it has been written I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and I will set aside the learning of the intelligent.


Erm, He-man, what's this all about?
God, be merciful to me
The Sinner




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