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Is there a holy piece of Paper in the world?


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#1 LioneDea

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 03:46 PM

Q: Why Bible called Holy Book?

end.

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#2 Mark Taunton

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Posted 18 June 2012 - 04:37 PM

The word "holy" means special or set apart. The Bible is a special book. But there's nothing special about the paper it is printed on. What is special or holy about the Bible is the message it contains.

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#3 LioneDea

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:49 AM

The word "holy" means special or set apart. The Bible is a special book. But there's nothing special about the paper it is printed on. What is special or holy about the Bible is the message it contains.



Lione D' ea: Therefore that piece of paper is Holy because it was contain by the message?


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#4 Mark Taunton

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:24 AM

No, the paper is just paper. The physical object is not important in itself. If a Bible is never opened but just stays on the shelf, what is special or holy about that Bible?

The Bible is only holy when it is accomplishing its purpose, when people actually read it and see how important and special is the message it contains. It is people who make it holy, becoming holy to God themselves, when they open the Bible, read it, believe it, and obey God, so that they can be saved.

#5 LioneDea

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

No, the paper is just paper. The physical object is not important in itself. If a Bible is never opened but just stays on the shelf, what is special or holy about that Bible?

The Bible is only holy when it is accomplishing its purpose, when people actually read it and see how important and special is the message it contains. It is people who make it holy, becoming holy to God themselves, when they open the Bible, read it, believe it, and obey God, so that they can be saved.



Lione D' ea: Then so who was the Holy is it the Bible or people?

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#6 Mark Taunton

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

Both. God is holy, and he wants people to be holy as he is holy (1 Pet 1:16). The scriptures, which contain the word of God, are also called holy (2 Tim 3:15), but that is speaking about the words that are written, not because the parchment or paper which the words are written on is itself holy.

Edited by Mark Taunton, 19 June 2012 - 11:56 AM.


#7 LioneDea

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 11:34 AM

Both. God is holy, and he wants people to be holy as he is holy (1 Pet 1:16). The scriptures, which contain the word of God, are also called holy (2 Tim 3:15), but that is speaking about the words that are written, not because the parchment or paper which the words are written on is itself holy.



Lione D' ea: If it is not on the paper then where we can find that writings which can holy to us?

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#8 Mark Taunton

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

Lione, there is no point in your question. Yes, the words are written on paper. But it's not the paper that matters! The words of God are what matter, and we can all read them in the Bible. They are from God who is holy, and they can work in us to make us holy if we read them, believe them and obey them.

Edited by Mark Taunton, 21 June 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#9 LioneDea

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

Lione, there is no point in your question. Yes, the words are written on paper. But it's not the paper that matters! The words of God are what matter, and we can all read them in the Bible. They are from God who is holy, and they can work in us to make us holy if we read them, believe them and obey them.



Lione D' ea: My question is where we can find that words which written to Holy in us?

end.

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#10 Richie

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 03:58 PM

Lione D' ea: My question is where we can find that words which written to Holy in us?

end.

Your question is made up of words that are English, but the sentence itself makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Edited by Richie, 26 June 2012 - 03:58 PM.

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#11 Richie

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

And one other thing:

All your base are belong to us.
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#12 nsr

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 05:25 PM

And you've started saying "end" again! At least be consistent and say "start" as well.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#13 LioneDea

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:55 PM

And one other thing:

All your base are belong to us.



Lione D' ea: I did not learn in any member of thechristadelphians bases even one, II Peter 1:21 Read:

For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (New International Version 1984)

Lione D' ea: The bases which I had is not origin from any member of thechristadelphians, but from God who entrusted the revelation to us. So far many in my questions still not yet answered of thechristadelphians and one of them is: Where is God when heavens and earth has not yet created, where is He. But the answers which give by your organisation you belong is not as the bases that I had and all the answers is wrong, so there is difference between thechristadelphians bases and my bases, for example your belief was Jesus Christ is a Man according to your bases, but for us Jesus Christ is God according to my bases, so how come that my bases is belong in yours. So before you stated that my bases is belong in yours my question was:

Question: Why Bible called Holy Book?

beware of dogs:


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#14 Matt Smith

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:17 PM


And one other thing:

All your base are belong to us.



Lione D' ea: I did not learn in any member of thechristadelphians bases even one, II Peter 1:21 Read:

For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (New International Version 1984)

Lione D' ea: The bases which I had is not origin from any member of thechristadelphians, but from God who entrusted the revelation to us. So far many in my questions still not yet answered of thechristadelphians and one of them is: Where is God when heavens and earth has not yet created, where is He. But the answers which give by your organisation you belong is not as the bases that I had and all the answers is wrong, so there is difference between thechristadelphians bases and my bases, for example your belief was Jesus Christ is a Man according to your bases, but for us Jesus Christ is God according to my bases, so how come that my bases is belong in yours. So before you stated that my bases is belong in yours my question was:

Question: Why Bible called Holy Book?

beware of dogs:


Richie's sense of humour is lost in translation.... The phrase is a quotation from an old video game... His point was that most of your posts make about as much sense to us as that quote does....
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#15 nsr

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:19 PM

Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#16 LioneDea

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:41 PM

Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?



Lione D' ea: The answer are not yet answered because I ask if the passage Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled in that time and the answer of your member is YES, but where we can read from Genesis to Malachi to prove that the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled and we called it OLD TESTAMENT?

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#17 nsr

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:45 PM

You need to translate that into proper English before I can answer it. Sorry.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#18 Richie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:57 PM


Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?



Lione D' ea: The answer are not yet answered because I ask if the passage Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled in that time and the answer of your member is YES, but where we can read from Genesis to Malachi to prove that the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled and we called it OLD TESTAMENT?


Because it's in what we call the Old Testament. What's the big deal?
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#19 LioneDea

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:50 AM



Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?



Lione D' ea: The answer are not yet answered because I ask if the passage Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled in that time and the answer of your member is YES, but where we can read from Genesis to Malachi to prove that the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled and we called it OLD TESTAMENT?


Because it's in what we call the Old Testament. What's the big deal?



Lione D' ea: To a people like you call it OLD, but for me it is not because there is covenant within the old testament which is not out of dated there. aside from Genesis 3:15 I give you another verse in Isaiah 14:12 Read:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lione D' ea: Isaiah 14:12 are not yet fulfilled from that time and it was placed in Old Testament(out of date). The point there is why from Genesis to Malachi are called Old Testament which is there is covenant or testament there are not yet fulfilled?

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#20 Matt Smith

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 01:02 PM




Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?



Lione D' ea: The answer are not yet answered because I ask if the passage Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled in that time and the answer of your member is YES, but where we can read from Genesis to Malachi to prove that the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled and we called it OLD TESTAMENT?


Because it's in what we call the Old Testament. What's the big deal?



Lione D' ea: To a people like you call it OLD, but for me it is not because there is covenant within the old testament which is not out of dated there. aside from Genesis 3:15 I give you another verse in Isaiah 14:12 Read:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lione D' ea: Isaiah 14:12 are not yet fulfilled from that time and it was placed in Old Testament(out of date). The point there is why from Genesis to Malachi are called Old Testament which is there is covenant or testament there are not yet fulfilled?


Isaiah 14 is a prophecy of the fall of the Babylonian king. Yes, it was written before it happened, as with Genesis 3:15. The Bible is full of prophecies, not only from Genesis to Malachi but also Matthew through Revelation.
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#21 LioneDea

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:05 PM





Why do you keep repeating questions we've already answered? Do you think we were deliberately withholding the real answer the first 17 times you asked?



Lione D' ea: The answer are not yet answered because I ask if the passage Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled in that time and the answer of your member is YES, but where we can read from Genesis to Malachi to prove that the prophecy in Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled and we called it OLD TESTAMENT?


Because it's in what we call the Old Testament. What's the big deal?



Lione D' ea: To a people like you call it OLD, but for me it is not because there is covenant within the old testament which is not out of dated there. aside from Genesis 3:15 I give you another verse in Isaiah 14:12 Read:

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lione D' ea: Isaiah 14:12 are not yet fulfilled from that time and it was placed in Old Testament(out of date). The point there is why from Genesis to Malachi are called Old Testament which is there is covenant or testament there are not yet fulfilled?


Isaiah 14 is a prophecy of the fall of the Babylonian king. Yes, it was written before it happened, as with Genesis 3:15. The Bible is full of prophecies, not only from Genesis to Malachi but also Matthew through Revelation.



Lione D' ea: It was Lucifer who thrown to the ground as the passage mention, how you testify that the prophecy of Isaiah 14:12 was fulfill and the Genesis 3:15 where as up to know it was not done yet?

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#22 nsr

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:40 PM

Who's Lucifer? Isn't he the evil cat from Disney's Cinderella?
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#23 LioneDea

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:30 PM

Who's Lucifer? Isn't he the evil cat from Disney's Cinderella?



Lione D' ea: So why are the thechristadelphians organisation teaching if you are ignorant in scripture?

end.

Edited by LioneDea, 11 July 2012 - 02:32 PM.

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#24 nsr

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:10 PM

OK, find me the word Lucifer in Scripture. Without using the KJV.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#25 Acomtha

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:15 PM

Even in the KJV, Lucifer is only the King of Babylon.

Isaiah

14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Edited by Acomtha, 11 July 2012 - 05:28 PM.

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#26 nsr

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:46 PM

The word in Hebrew is nothing like Lucifer. That's a left-over from the Latin Vulgate. The word Hebrew means something like "light bringer" which for some reason was translated as "Lucifer" in the Vulgate.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#27 LioneDea

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:37 AM

OK, find me the word Lucifer in Scripture. Without using the KJV.



Lione D' ea: There is...but if I testify in other translation do you accept you lose?

:D

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#28 LioneDea

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

Even in the KJV, Lucifer is only the King of Babylon.

Isaiah

14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Lione D' ea: Wrong brother, the correct we had to say there is the King nor the Babylon is spirited to satan, and not only spirited to the Babylon in Ezekiel 28:14-17,2 Read:

Thou art the anointed cherub(satan) that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart islifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thouart a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Lione D' ea: The prince of Tyrus also is spirited to satan.

Edited by LioneDea, 12 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.

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#29 nsr

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:25 AM


OK, find me the word Lucifer in Scripture. Without using the KJV.



Lione D' ea: There is...but if I testify in other translation do you accept you lose?

:D

How about if you find me "Lucifer" in the original Hebrew?
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)

#30 nsr

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:26 AM


Even in the KJV, Lucifer is only the King of Babylon.

Isaiah

14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
14:6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


Lione D' ea: Wrong brother, the correct we had to say there is the King nor the Babylon is spirited to satan, and not only spirited to the Babylon in Ezekiel 28:14-17,2 Read:

Thou art the anointed cherub(satan) that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart islifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thouart a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Lione D' ea: The prince of Tyrus also is spirited to satan.


Ah, so even though the King of Babylon and the King of Tyre are the ones being addressed in Is 14 and Eze 28, they are "spirited to Satan". So we can start off a conclusion and just "spiritualise" as many passages as we need to in order to make it fit.
"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." (Heb 12:22-23)




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